So for all those even remotely interested, I am doing my first solo show at Glasgows famous (well famous in Glasgow) 13th Note. 20 mins of me, a guitar and an MP3 player. Tomorrow night.
Also, I have finished my Smoking Is Addictive album, which will be available as unique recycled packages at the gig and very soon online (hopefully). Crosley Bendix didn’t like the snippets he heard (see previous WAH threads) but maybe you will…..
It will be priced very reasonably and will be handmade by either myself or Mrs Phantom G.
9/9/99 - the launch of the Sega Dreamcast 10 years ago. A noble failure.
Why does it matter? Because, for the first time, there was a mass market device that was relatively inexpensive that provided internet browsing. At a time when I couldn’t afford my own computer, this was the method by which I was able to be a full time member of the internet community. I could even use it to download MP3s, which I would then record into my MiniDisc player through the speaker jack.
The Dreamcast itself was in many ways the first modern gaming console was we see them today. Its ultimate failure, and the end of Sega as a gaming giant in the hardware space, also meant the end of an era. The entrance of Sony and Microsoft into that same space was motivated less by gaming, than by getting a device into people’s livings rooms through which they can funnel and sell all their other content and services.
Negativland has stripped me of all emotions. I cannot believe in anything or anybody, not even Negativland themselves! I am eliminating my presence from the earth as soon as possible. Thank You.
Re: 10
Negativland does not now, nor ever will be held to any legalistic responsibility in relation to anything real that may be suggested in WAH contributions by the unwashed unknown, victims of failure all, and yet unable to let go, now or in the future, so be it.
I have an old record by Negativland titled, “Gather Moss”. It has has a wall paper covered sleeve with a picture of a toilet in the woods which is donned with a green fuzzy toilet seat cover. Inside there is a photocopy of a a recipe for coffee cake that lists coffee as one of the ingredients.
I have always cherished this record and have always thought it was way ahead of its time.
I have only seen this record mentioned once in a record collector’s book. It was described that each cover was different and as being pretty rare and valuable. It is not listed anywhere on the internets that I can find.
Does anybody have any background on this fine piece of art?! It has always been my favorite record find of all time.
re 14: The record you speak of is the debut album self titled ‘Negativland’. Yes it is pretty rare, you can still pick up copies on ebay and there is one place in switzerland that does CD versions at a very reasonable price. That’s where I got mine. Good album isn’t it?
I got a copy of it off of ebay. Can’t remember the price point, but I really don’t care as it is an awesome album with an amazing cover (not just in effort but in commitment, that’s a LOT of covers to make by hand, but I guess their razor blade skills are pretty well honed).
It’s most definitely my favourite album in my collection for the sheer fact that the cover is handmade. We should get some kind of “post a picture of your LP” database going so everyone can see what everyone elses cover is like.
There my not be much improvement, but also consider that it hasn’t gone to complete shit by now.
For what is basically an unmoderated message board, this place has been surprisingly free of racist douchbags, conspiracy theorists and spam-bots. If you want to see how quickly this kind of thing can go south, just check out the comments section of any online news site like CBC or YahooNews. Hell, you can even see it on porn sites that offer user comment sections.
The implication is that this is far too small an audience for any real dickwad to be bothered with. Or they just haven’t found us yet. But they will -in time, they will. Failure, after all, is imminent.
What exactly would constitute improvement? Do we expect a modern day Shakespeare to publish the next Romeo and Juliet in weekly installments on the Negativland board? It was always quite likely to be mostly posts about Negativlands current or old works. And the odd bit of randomness thrown in for good measure.
re 21: exactamundo. We will mourn the decline when the spambots find us…
…riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.
Sir Tristram, violer d’amores, fr’over the short sea, had passen-core rearrived from North Armorica on this side the scraggy isthmus of Europe Minor to wielderfight his penisolate war: nor had topsawyer’s rocks by the stream Oconee exaggerated themselse to Laurens County’s gorgios while they went doublin their mumper all the time: nor avoice from afire bellowsed mishe mishe to tauftauf thuartpeatrick: not yet, though venissoon after, had a kidscad buttended a bland old isaac: not yet, though all’s fair in
vanessy, were sosie sesthers wroth with twone nathandjoe. Rot a peck of pa’s malt had Jhem or Shen brewed by arclight and rory end to the regginbrow was to be seen ringsome on the aquaface.
I don’t know about Gilliam; Didn’t like “Brothers Grimm” or “Tideland” all that much…. let’s hope this “Imaginarium” thing is gonna be half-way decent! I’m sure with Tom Waits as the devil, it should have some good moments……..
You know! I live far away from Berkley and am in no way involved in manufacuring sound or visual collages. I like many things about negativland and over the edge but not because I share an interest in the making of this stuff but because I just like the content. From what I read here, I assume this is an allien concept.
Well, I DID make a ‘audio collage’ or two in my day, but that’s behind me now…. made my last ‘piece’ in ‘97; I was working in an old AM station in New Orleans, with old ‘cart machines’ & ‘reel-to-reel’s, when the guy that ran the place and I decided to try to make ‘loops’ the old fashioned way; a pencil and a loop of tape…. called the entire thing “Frank-n-Basie”: the station played nothing but standards….. had a ball. You should try ‘makin’ stuff’ at least ONCE, Hoosier…… It’s lots of fun!
Vincent… I do “make stuff” eg. paintings & drawings… wish i had creative skills in audio but I don’t. I just like listening to Over The Edge and Negativland and enjoy the product. What they do has value outside of any inner circle of audiophiles. I just like the shit I hear.
re 30: Fair enough mate. I don’t listen to Negativland primarily because I make the odd bit of audio collage, I’m the same as you - I quite like it.
Think those of us (myself anyway) posting details of our own ’stuff’ are working on the logical premise that maybe someone who likes negativland’s ’stuff’ might also like our own similar(ish) ’stuff’. And anyway, it’s nice to share, my mum always told me.
To be honest, the more technical aspects of the sounds etc I’m not that interested in, I like OTE because it has the ability to make me consider ideas, laugh and remind me of things I’d forgotten. And every now and again you will hear the Weatherman….
I was recently going through my Dr. Demento collection and decided to listen to the ‘animal’ themed shows (cats,dogs,ducks,etc.)…then I thought about it, thought about OTE, and started digging. I went through the past 15 years or so of OTE and didn’t seem to find any ‘animal’ themes.
I could’t find any. (does the UFO-Reptilians show count?) Now, normally I wouldn’t make suggestions to Don on his content, but it seems that this area has been untapped. Just a thought…
There’s never been a show about sox either, unless…………………
…………..( cuts to 2 weeks later hwy 5 Bakersfield,ca ……HOTDOG HOTDOG gotchor ears on?? Channel 17 gotcha ears on boy, it’s the SOX Show starring me TYRONE TENDERFOOT!
An entire 10 minutes of me jamming you out while talking about nutin but sox. ALL KINDA SOX!! I aint gonna stop key’n up til I stop say’n SOX BABAY!!! I once bought a pair at a Jamacan flea market….ooooow I tell ya Sox for days!!
I think the difference is, that sox don’t have quite the same impact on popular culture. Consider Animal Planet, the Micheal Vick case, Steve Irwin, Stupid Pet Tricks, PETA, the pet chimp in Connecticut that went nuts and tore a woman’s face and hands off…
Was thinking the other day, a good sample to use during the current OTE would be the one used at the start of GNR’s Civil War (from Cold Hand Luke, possibly) “what we got here is failure to communicate”. Especially if used during one of those rubbish mobile phone calls.
The Quantum Church has no need to pander to the full-on style council panel for what will happen in November.
whatever whatever a bazillion bazillion, and all eternities.
They are actually the same person. The weatherman is actually a prototype speech recognition & synthesis program from the late 70’s. Richard Lions was an intern at Texas Instruments when it was developed and later terminated in favor of the cheaper Speak and Spell circuit.
Thats why you’ll never see them at the same time; why do you think Richard has such an extensive assortment of ZZ Top wigs and beards? Pure showbiz!
The really weird thing is that when you listen to the Weatherman, he does sound like a speech synthesis program. I’m sure I saw Dick Vaughn working in a chip shop…
Is crime legal yet? Minimal enumeration on the psychedelic credentials of the wanderer include this moment in the dance music theater at Lookout Injun Country Club: the cook, his phials, a deep toke at o dark thirty. Coldly stunned with the power of the alien image in which I become enmeshed. At the time I became very proficient at using a certain mind trick that many of my acquaintances had noticed to be very effective. They elected me as I volunteered to use this persuasive method of gently waving and mentioning a certain common word to carry an expensive stack of bright pink documents past a waiting horde of gangster bikers. I was suddenly part of a large multi-limbed and extremity-hinged and laden female freaka-zoidal torture-being upon a pedestal who commanded me to “take my take your knowledge and go” This knowledge was at the time that the overall idea of smoking from strange pipes was a bad idea for someone who had an infant son about whom he cared very much. The statue was in fact a guardian of youth baying the moral offender forward into the following encounter: From this horrified vision of a strange reality seen and understood to mean “Don’t do death-mimicking drugs; Ya’ ll have babies, fuck you, take your knowledge and go,” Then in my being I transitioned from this one-ness with the torture idol that I was seeing through the perceptions of my infant, experiencing things orally and in a different order and spectrum from normal adult perception, I transitioned from being ordered to take my knowledge and go to my shadow begging me not to reveal what I was about to be shown. I was sitting on this mountain top with my child and he was a little older, maybe about five and we were waiting for the impact of these two comets to destroy the earth and we could clearly see them approaching as the entire sky was already darkened with smoke and debris. The horizon was an open book with black pages tinged in lava and smouldering. The “deal” at the point was such:It was the G_d=UI birthday and “they” were going to destroy the universe as a suprise but they were going to refashion it as a gift, and the flesh of universal intelligence of humanity would of course be destroyed, but the refashioning would overjoy “Him=anthrosophos=666=PPP=etc”. So then they issued this assurance that all flesh of humanity would be recreated in an order according to how much of your personally chosen and stated holy essence you could recite or communicate accurately or truthfully. So we were sitting there and they are talking about me from a control room and I more or less overheard them explain how nouns work and they are like how’d he verb in here. So they say put him in code whatever, so then I’m by myself following this big rig trailer through the sky and it has all these lights going around on the outside of it with a message board scrolling through where the license plate would be and they are like “recite what you read until you can’t read anything anymore.” So “I am” genuinely scared for my life at what I have just seen and the test/sequence begins. So sitting there at about an hour before dawn in a quiet campground I start calling out loud “If you read the babble it will save your life,” The license plate message text kept going around and within half a minute I’m rapping out loud all by myself “If you read the babble it will save your life, if you read the babble it will save your life” and nearby relative observers began clapping and hooting along and we’re having this wierd jam and then the tractor trailer that I was flying behind through space turns back into the fried dough cart. I am not of any particularly enthusiastic persuasion. Rarely so the public display of affection of or for the sort. So it is highly incongruous for my character that I would “soulfully rap” these lyrics in the midst of the crowd at a sleepy hour. “If you read the babble it will save your life” for many bars, and with psychedelic gusto. And I was saying Bible. Suddenly the only thing left to say was “I don’t read the bible.” the dance music theater had emptied. We were camped in the handicapped section of the lookout so the athletic wheelchair racing dudes down the way really thought the sermon was on and were just beginning to get into it. So I had at least a dozen interested hipsters participating and grooving on a sixty second pre- dawn jam, and then when it was quickly and completely over I could not then suddenly explain the voyage and trial I had just endured. There was some disappointed murmuring from the crowd camped next door and what remained were trees through the cars twisting them off the ground and crushing them in their trunks and the idea that I had parked a very fancy racing car somewhere in the place and that it was fine. The “fuck you; take your knowledge and go” statue had however been all too menacing and personal with my suddenly infantile perceptions. The terror of the scenario, together with a looming combo was more than I could explain in a rap right then that went along with the bit that had just occurred. Momentarily I explained to my friend that I had been attempting to save the universe by willingly participating in my own extrication from the situation by reciting what the controllers had scrolled across the fried dough truck’s license plate…scripture is functionally illegible. Aware of “the” intent I reflexively add text. ” That’s the pre-judgemental belief in my delusions I learned from my shadow.” Once they get the nano-sized polymers on the sly they use the sustained frequency radiation of the hallucination transmitter to keep them going left and martial them into arts and crafty shapes. Moisture sticks to the particular particles individually tunably so, and light passing them provides coloration when seen from the ground. Sincere thanks for the awesome and intimidating display of the assassins, the peaceful archer, the decapitated one and the corpse in repose, with grieving distracted other. The bitch-folk that run the Leadership cult are typical TV Church members. Massive psychologists know when the mainstream population is most likely to be outside during any given episode of programming. On a glaring sabbath some accusing truant is likely to be out trying to convince church goers of the local badness of the missionary war machine. My swaggering martyr undertakes an inquisitive profusion of half legal wagers, at church manipulating her aerosol of appearance into being likewise inspired by similarly intervening television programming. The very idea of membership unbridles their avarice as they kick up their heels with reverent intolerance. The old urge to be correct as an in-crowd lets them do as they wish and turn their backs. If you happen by their festivity you must approach their behinds clad in expensive humble- pants, in which their candied-asses waggle a message of contentment that their eyes contradict. That they appear to be gathered there “first.” I’ve lived with many ghosts and lately I’m still young. Being the plant that I am I use them like dirt. My martyr assures you she bills Jihad by his other name. Some incisive native asks “Have you met this man?” Pressed for an answer, an invisible aggregate bounds out from the semblance of history, which is certainly convincin
I remember back in my University days, someone making the point that after Finnegan’s Wake, there really wasn’t anywhere else for fiction to go.
I think the open question is, is the written word as attractive a medium for storytelling now that other options exist? The tools are available now that even a single individual can create a film or interactive program that can reach an audience more easily than the current process for submitting and publishing a novel.
Still, as illiterate as we often think of our culture as being, there are still tons of books being written, and tons of books being bought and read. Like any artform, it never really dies just because all avenues for innovation have dried up.
re 73: Your lack of spacing etc made your yarn a touch hard to read. What I did manage to wade through seemed like a really bad trip. Try paragraphs, sometimes rules are there to make life easier for everybody.
re 76: I still prefer the written word as a means to tell a story. Movies are all good and well but for the best of novels the movie would need to be about 9 or 10 hours long, minimum. Fucked if I want to sit through a film that long, I wanted to kill Peter Jackson after the 2nd fade up at the end of LOTR3.
Then again, I still think you could sum up LOTR trilogy in about 20 mins. Never was a fan of THOSE books.
re 75: It may not be just you, but as you can see it is definitely not me. I read books all the time, and have a bookcase crammed full of novels and non fiction. Theres even a couple of Negativland books on my shelves….
so, uh the new novel, hows that going for you??? you got a plot, main character gets into some trouble that gets resolved eventually, an unexpected twist???? hmmm hmm…. good luck with that…
Well dear, it is a completed and published novel with an absolutely gorgeous cover of magnified cannabis. I composed and edited the entire thing in a sweeet acid stupor, and self-published through troybookmakers.com. I’m working on a distribution deal through my agent with the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors. The book is 200 pgs in 6″x9″, and is a meditation on global and personal power conundrums. I♥LSD&Techno, esp. NEGATIVLAND!!! Teslar Overhaul
another brief excerpt, sorry about the lack of conventional paragraphing but the book is a real time composition derived from the ingestion of over 2500 hits of swiss and californian acid, and is writ as genuine legend of the period.
My mother equates financial accomplishment with spiritual superiority. In her condescension anyone who hasn’t gotten as much money as her using banking and franchise warp interfaces needs her version of empty cryptic Leadership. I’ve decided to reveal that in my belief structure vitality of life at the end of the Mayan long count is spiritual superiority. My leadership mocks its own sacred cow. I’m here to steal the face of her exclusive savior. It might be more than who she says “He” is. The Name is insisted upon overmuch. My martyr calls it holy scripture but I call it old poetry. “He was no criminal but for your various felonies he distracted the eternal cops and got killed. They thought He was you so if you always remember what happened you’ll get away.”
This is a powerful position from which I don’t care. Please excuse my outrageous human pose. Nylon is different from natural rope. Nylon fibers are stronger and sharper than hemp fibers. Nylon doesn’t just chafe, it also saws. A taut nylon rope is an expedient hack saw. So let the nylon do the work. If it does not first cut my body free then the fallen leaves will expose me. Simian fingers drop a fruitless egg. The breeze settles. Late summer. Particles of titanium and gold take their places. The sun drags around parabolic moorings through darkness as morning. Distant metal flies climb interminably on long pointing puffed streaks that smear gauzily. If only Google’s guns can observe hunger and appreciate life and death in still oneness then eternity breathes open personably. ‘Till then all these hopes and dreams are for a life in a world that is going out of business, so they’ll be shot accordingly into a paper towel please.
Ahem. From a commanding outcrop in time I view history through TV! Ever higher climbs the remote for the next vantage of the future from the present. I’ve got places to go and shows to watch when I get there. I was born to watch my favorite show. In an odd continuum the present always refreshes itself relentlessly while the future comes and goes past and still there’s the future up a few channels. Eventually dirt gets you mad humble though your show is still on! You pass in reality from your mysterious genesis to a particular outlook.
In an effort to encourage this Negativ backyard blog to become appointment blogging for millions and millions of Americans all over this planet, I suggest using this bunch of pixels to expose new or unusual conceptual positioning with regard to culture and human perception.
Concerning the latter, you must have noticed as I have, that sound quality (The quality of the sound) used in all digital formats is mattering less and less, not more and more, as the digital era continues.
I believe this is because once sound reproduction reaches an “end” for human perception, anything beyond which is useless to our human senses as in the digital era, our mediums become more inclined to include a whole variety of Hi Fi levels in the content, mining anywhere in our audio past.
In digital media, we have begun to cease distinguishing the highest Hi Fi as an imperative in audio reproduction now that “perfection” is actually possible.
And cell phones have been instrumental in degrading our “acceptable” standards for sound reproduction.
The mega-corporations/media-conglomerates/crooked politicians (a.k.a. “Powers That Be”) want to make the sharing of “copyrighted material” more illegal and jail even more people. They even consider mash-ups and collages illegal. But consider this:
they never *once* properly define the word “copyright”! if someone wishes to share one’s own material with another, then, technically, it is still “copyrighted material”, even if it only contains the original ideas of that individual. According to the laws working up, it will be illegal to share any copyrighted material, rendering everything illegal, unless they change their semantics. See, they keep ASSUMING the definition of the phrase “sharing copyrighted material” automatically means material owned by mega-corporations. A more logical phrase (for what they are after) is the sharing of “corporate-owned” material (not simply “copyright”). It is a matter of semantics, and since these Powers-That-Be are working up more legalese cases against “file-sharers”, semantics is important in this case. Think of this: I seriously doubt they will argue in favor of an independent artist having his/her work, or even ideas, stolen by a major corporation, yet that happens frequently! Copyright law states that as soon as one puts an idea on paper or other physical form, it is “copyrighted”, with that individual owning the copyright (or “right to copy”). Independent thinkers, artists, musicians, filmmakers, writers, etc., however, have no recourse when it comes to huge corporations stealing their ideas (the copyrights of individuals). Independent individuals cannot fight if they do not have mega-millions-of-dollars to use in their legal defense. The elite powers-that-be only want more power and control, while removing more freedoms from the general public, thereby creating more of a slave-based society and economy.
Re: 105
Yes, it’s unbelievable that we are so deep (over three decades) into “found” source material reuses in ALL the arts, by now obviously a validated method to make new art by all artistic accounts, that the barrier of copyright laws still stand unchanged as if nothing has happened.
There is now a distinct disconnect between law and art, (illegal = desirable) and although lawsuits have seemed to diminish in recent years, we are all still subject to the vindictive whims of our multiple source owners anytime they care to invoke them.
We continue to plead for copyright reform within these new artistic conditions. Something simple like “Fair Use For Collage” added to copyright law would be a widely art-curing improvement all by itself.
Copyright law, itself, states the reason for having copyright laws is to ENCOURAGE the creation of new art. Well?
re 108. It’s so damn hard to create new art, to create something new it has to be different than everything else! Sure it can be an original way of saying something else but it is still that something else, We are unable to create new things unless we quit dwelling on the old things, however, if we can start to let go of what we already know then we can start thinking outside of the box and not dwell on what we have been raised around, we have accepted many ideas and are unable to see anything else besides what we have been raised around. Realizing that is the first step to creation.
It’s always been about money! ‘If a sample falls in the woods…’. The world now is such that you can do ANYTHING, and, if your lucky, someone will say, I like it! That’s if your lucky! I believe now . it’s a case of ‘If you ignore it, it will go away’! Just this year, I’ve gotten such much stuff for free, (and, thank BOB, too, since I don’t have the money I used to have) that the ‘industry’ is now nothing but a joke!
re 109: I would argue that re-creating things need not be boring. Do you no longer derive pleasure from listening to Hendrix, Marley, Cobain, Burton(cliff), Bach, whatever?
I like outside the box, but there’s still plenty inside the box worth listening to, discovering, reviewing and renewing, sampling, mashing up or whatever. I would love to hear something brand new, but I think Crosley is right, Everything Has Been Done Before.
re 111: I was more talking about being original, there is not anything wrong with mashups or collages otherwise i would hate negativland (Speaking of which, SEND MY MOVIE ALREADY)
Secret Copyright Treaty Leaks, It’s Bad. Very Bad. 11/3/09. This is
regarding the internet chapter of the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade
Agreement, the Obama administration has refused to release the text
on “national security” grounds, but contents have leaked.
* That ISPs have to proactively police copyright on user-contributed
material. This means that it will be impossible to run a service like
Flickr or YouTube or Blogger, since hiring enough lawyers to ensure
that the mountain of material uploaded every second isn’t infringing
will exceed any hope of profitability.
* That ISPs have to cut off the Internet access of accused copyright
infringers or face liability. This means that your entire family
could be denied to the internet — and hence to civic participation,
health information, education, communications, and their means of
earning a living — if one member is accused of copyright
infringement, without access to a trial or counsel.
* That the whole world must adopt US-style “notice-and-takedown”
rules that require ISPs to remove any material that is accused —
again, without evidence or trial — of infringing copyright. This has
proved a disaster in the US and other countries, where it provides an
easy means of censoring material, just by accusing it of infringing
copyright.
* Mandatory prohibitions on breaking DRM, even if doing so for a
lawful purpose (e.g., to make a work available to disabled people;
for archival preservation; because you own the copyrighted work that
is locked up with DRM)
re 116: that is indeed very very worrying. I sometimes feel that these big record labels etc are so out of touch with the general public that they don’t even realise what they do is alienating us more and eroding their profits further. They will end up destroying themselves if they are not careful.
It does seem strange to me that they have a problem with illegal downloading, when I am sure many who may or may not be downloading illegally also are quite likely to own a pretty extensive library of legitimate ‘product’. I truly do believe that the harm downloading does to profits is negligible. Otherwise these companies would have totally disappeared by now. They haven’t because people ARE STILL BUYING CD’S DVD’S ETC.
Downloading is so easily done and so accessible nowadays that if everyone was going to download rather than buy ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING, then sales of CD’s and DVD’s etc would be very very reduced. They’re not.
There is a recession going on in most parts of the world, people are buying less of everything, even clothes and food for God’s sake if there even was one. Is it that surprising that sales are falling slightly in what are essentially luxury items. If people are going hungry, surely it is not that strange that they are choosing not to buy the latest Beatles remasters or American Idol manufactured piss pop albums.
@Jen:
First off, I KNOW that this is not your fault, Jen. I had been away from the site for some weeks (multiple personal tragedies) I cam back because I wanted to purchase a few more of the OTE shows, but thought I would catch up by trying to get some of the newer shows that I have missed. (the halloween show, art show, and a couple of the ‘fail’ shows).
I found it basically impossible to get the free shows tonight. They would cancel out after d/ling 8 megs, 30 megs, etc. I have been trying all nite, and still haven’t been able to get a single one (and it’s now almost 4am PST!)
I still remember the debacle that I had the first time I tried to order an old OTE show, and it happened to be around the time that the server decided to delete part of the catalog. Honestly, at this point, I am AFRAID to even try. I am curious as to whether or not people PAYING for shows are getting better results at downloading the shows.
Now, I’m really not bitching about the free shows…hell they are free, so I can’t complain, BUT I would like to know if things have been sorted out for those of us that actually PURCHASE older shows. I really don’t want to have to wait 3 weeks to get another order…or have my “7 tries” get wasted because the damn server is doing auto-timeouts after a minute or so.
As to “illegal” downloading of DIGITAL MEDIA…it’s my opinion that all digital media should be free. Anything broadcast over the airwaves is free for ‘capture’ with a radio. I feel that in this modern age, that DIGITAL media be considered in the same vein. Digital media is transmitted virtually the same way that AM/FM was done in the old days.
If Artists and Big Business want to keep their products ‘contained and controlled’…perhaps a new mode of delivery should be created. Obviously, it should be apparent that downloading music, movies, programs, games, etc. is easy…and getting FASTER as our technology gets faster. It would be ludicrous to think that you can ‘put the genie back in the bottle’…get over it, its NOT going to happen.
I find it extremely humourous when people cry out about ‘theft’ or ‘people not getting paid’ or whatever the arguement may be at the moment. Obviously, the digital age lends itself, BY ITS OWN CREATION, to be fast, efficient, and easily transmitted and duplicated. Big Business CREATED digital media…forced us to accept it as the norm, and now whines because its easier and faster to copy than cassettes and LP’s?? HAHAHA!
And as for artists…well, if are trying to make a living with music, video, whatnot…perhaps YOU need to think about a new way to deliver the goods to your buyers. If you truly think that your digital creations will not be copied, you ARE delusional.
This is Peter from Negativland - Mr. JB: you ordered a DVD from Seeland and have not received it yet? Please write me at peter@negativland.com, as I am showing no outstanding orders!
…but you are straying from the thought. This IS the digital age. We now have the ability to share information (whatever that entails, be it books, music, encyclopedic knowledge…whatever) via the internet on a worldwide basis. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I consider it a good thing to be able to share information globally, instantly. In this ‘Age of Information’ the general public is now able to access everything…from doctoral dissertations about the latest medical advances…to an endless onslaught of mindless YouTube vids. You take the good with the bad.
Should we go back to the dark ages, where information was kept hidden and secret, where only a fraction of the populace had the power that comes with information? People were kept illiterate and thus control was formed.
What I’m saying is that you can’t have it both ways. You can’t have a cheap, easily reproducible medium on which to create, and NOT have it easily reproducible. I myself DO download a lot of stuff, oh yes…but I DO support those that I WANT TO. Artists like Negativland, The Residents and Einstuerzende Neubauten get my money. And it goes to them DIRECTLY. If I were to buy something from some .mp3 site and download an album…how much of that goes to the artist? I’ll bet the answer is NONE or A PITTANCE.
Also, I find it funny that…according to those FBI warnings on store-bought dvd’s…you don’t even OWN that DVD. You are merely LEASING IT. Is that store-bought DVD “property”? And since it’s in YOUR HANDS, and paid for with YOUR money… don’t you “own” it? Can’t you do what you like with what you “own”. Are you going to tell me that YOU have never copied an LP, cassette, DVD, or videotape for a friend…EVER? If so, then you should go to jail…correct? What if EVERYONE that had ever copied anything went to jail. How many people would still be walking the streets today?
Ah, but who would flip the Mcburgers, and tend the lawns, etc, etc. We couldn’t incarcerate the entire poverty/lower/middle class because there would be no WORKERS left…lol. Can’t run a machine without the cogs.
In my opinion, little infractions and minor deviations from accepted norms are allowed as a ‘venting’ mechanism. Frustrations about the poor quality of life need release, and if you can ‘get one over THE MAN’…you feel a bit better. It’s best to allow these little things and in this way keep the huddled masses quiescent, rather than grouping up and causing trouble…wanting ‘change’ and ‘fairness’ and ‘a new system’…or that dreaded “D” word…democracy
Re 125: Patrick McGoohan has been quoted as saying “Freedom is a myth,” but I have no idea when he said it, if he did. Ever notice how rich people put bars over their windows and around their properties (and communities)? It’s as if when Certain Men Get Their Way they make themselves prettier, more comfortable prisons to live in.
Re 126: I don’t think humans are economically necessary any longer. Computers are better at trading stocks and corporations are just as capable of selling to one another. Now, if we could just convince the fundamentalist Capitalists that there is no Money…
yeah, because who needs all those old and sick people anyway, right? Who needs police when you got a six shooter by your side? Ah, America, how I love you…
re133: YES! Kevin Spacey’s ‘death touch’ is straight up Monty Python! However, having a ‘disorientated’ soldier shoot up an army camp smack in the middle of the movie is, how do you say, a little too close to recent events that this movie will wind up like “Big Trouble”….. anybody remember THAT film?
Released just days after 9/11, “Big Trouble” features a very funny scene in a airport where a bomb makes it through customs! Showing airport security to be a bunch of ‘low-paycheck’ earning slackers was NOT what the public wanted to see. Still, it’s a funny movie….. just like “Goats” is.
re130….the gun and the bible…more dire consequences from these two than from the weatherman or people who stare at goats or Kevin Spacey or even Tim Allen…..It’s amazing that anyone still believes in Libertarianism….more and more I come to understand that life is but a joke ….and so am I….and so are you
Has ‘Synth Britannia’ appeared on anyone’s radar here recently? It’s highly recommended. It up on YouTube in ten minute chunks, but I know it can be found on torrents as well.
A lot of really interesting interviews. I was especially taken with Richard H Kirk talking about the inspiration behind ‘Red Mecca’.
If only the CBC could do a ‘Synth Canadiana’. Whenever I think of that era, I’m reminded of the flood of Canadian new wave acts - The Spoons, Martha and the Muffins, Images In Vogue (leading to Skinny Puppy), Moev, Psyche, Rational Youth and more.
Haven’t been on in awhile, I read the part about how they defined libertarian, and it makes more sense than the opposing argument that our path is decided for us.
Regarding record labels destroying themselves,I work at a record store,and while some labels have gotten smarter(ie putting mp3 downloads or cd with vinyl releases)I see even more who are just blindly stumbling toward failure(overpricing,delays in release dates(this happens a lot more than you would expect),reissuing artists to the point that even die hard fans get burned out(do we really need yet another Elvis Costello reissue of This Years Model,or Bowies catalog?),even EMI recently said they were depending on rereleases of Bowies back catalog to save them financially)…this year the labels planned a vinyl saturday event,once a month on a saturday,very limited vinyl 45s and or lps would be issued…it went well for about a month,then it failed,until this past saturday when nothing came at all(it was to be a Beatles Abbey Road pack with a shirt and lp…it never materialized,and the plug was officially pulled on Vinyl Saturday,the industry admitting poor planning and ineptude on their part.
To top this off trying to keep a store open,ascap is breathing down our necks for us to pay for the occasional free instore performances we have,even when a band is not affiliated with ascap…
I think in the end the indie labels that have their shit together and a price structure that doesn’t scare off consumers will be the last ones standing…there will always be people who want to hold physical product in their hands…but more everyday who are weaned on the compressed sound of mp3s and think that they are good sound quality…
I finally got “Our Favorite Things” after 3 weeks, its okay negativland, anyway that is one of the most disturbing things i have ever seen. I loved it. I could see how “normal people” wouldn’t like it however.
re 155: Not sure if I mentioned on here before, but my 7 year old has liked over the hiccups for the past few years. There’s no way I could let her watch the video for it, though. She likes Gimme the Mermaid, which is about the only one I let her view.
She likes Four Fingers, which I have on a bootleg live DVD (More Than Live), I can’t let her watch that one, since Mark chops his fingers off during it…. Perhaps next year for that one.
Gimme the mermaid is very well done, Over the hiccups I wouldn’t let suicidal teenagers watch, and how they connected the homicidal kid with Mashin’ of the christ i have no idea.
I never said it was ‘frightening’….. it just made me cry.
But, then again, I’m a big PUSS!
I cried when Jesse is left in the box, in the middle of “Toy Story 2″, and I always cry when I listen to “You Don’t Even Live Here”!!
God, what a great track!
Thank you, Negativland!
UP?? My wife says the same thing….. I felt like the way I felt when I was given one of those “Rainbow Bridge” cards: You know, when a cat or dog dies, and the vet hands you that card that says, “When you die, your dog/cat will BE THERE….. and he/she will RUN TO YOU, and LOVE YOU!”
Pheee-you! What kind of manipulative crap is THIS?, I thought, as I turned to the wife…. tears streaming down her face!
No, it’s expression of content-ness in Jessie face, not knowing she’s about to be ABANDONED that ‘hits’ me! Death is death!
“Do you realize, that everyone,
you know,
one day,
will die.”
Like I said, about “You Don’t Even Live Here”; I can’t tell if it’s what she’s saying that kills me, or, the fact that for years I thought it was just an up-tempo song with incomprehensible ‘megaphone’ noise behind it. Just another song to ‘bop’ your head to. And, THEN, actually LISTENING to her plight….. my guilt for not knowing the seriousness of the subject.
Still hits me.
Yes, we all die. I fully accept that. Still gets me though, it’s the loss of love I think and the unfulfillment of dreams that does it more than the death. The scene at the hospital followed by the nursery turning into just another room hit me quite hard as well.
I agree with you on ‘You Don’t Even Live Here’ not sure how many times I listened to that one before I finally realised what she was going on about.
I believe religion was created partly to help human beings accept death, it is scary it truly is, I have had many deaths in my family and not a single one hasn’t changed me, as a person, as a living vessel, as a lover… a bit cheesy i realize but you get it.
Well, a friend of mine ‘forced’ “Extras” on me;
sent me the 12 eps. and said “Watch it!”
Now, I don’t think “The Office” is ‘all that’, and, while this one still has that whiff of “Office” on it…… it wasn’t awful.
The comedy of ‘embarrassment’ get a little old.
Covering every ‘don’t-say-that-in-front-of’ fill-in-the-blank can have it’s value, but…..
meh. I’s alright.
I think everyone should watch next weeks episode of the venture brothers, It’s got cthulhu in it!!! at least thats what i’m led to believe. Its on at 12:00am sunday
re 180: yeah good point, Apparently every post even under the same name is a unique person *laughs*, I wonder if Negativlands albums sync up with any movies??
Every time you come on here to post you are another distinct individual from the last time you posted, as you have something unique to say, different from last time. Also you may have matured (or IMmatured) since last time posting.
We all know Negativland have virtually NO fans. Would any of us want it any other way?
Too true PhantomG, I keep trying to get people at my school to get into them but they are to freaked out, for instance i tried to let my friend linzy listne to what so proudly we fail part 2 and it cut it to the death of dick vaughan right when she started listening. She doesn’t like them now.
I think what made me smile most about this story is that there is actually some idealistic young kid out there who still dreams of running his own radio station -and in a way that radio hasn’t been since since he was alive, but in a way he knows that it SHOULD be done.
re 184 - I only ever managed to get my wife SLIGHTLY into Negland, have never tried with any friends. I just know they wouldn’t get it straight away (if I’m honest I didn’t) and would be unlikely to give the time required for it to finally click. The radio shows are probably not the best in-road. I’d go with Thigmotactic or Dispepsi as a starting point as they are the most commercial sounding (not that they are commercial but you know what I mean). I was replying to a post on another forum about best albums of the past decade, and the first to spring to mind was IAYHFM, which to me is the best album I’ve heard in a long LONG time. I don’t think many on the forum would have heard of Negativland and probably not a lot of them would like that album in particular, but the question was asked, so….
re 185: A great little story there, pity he got busted. I really don’t get the problem as far as copyright goes, surely hearing a song on the radio that you like still makes some folk seek it out and buy it?
On a completely unrelated note, Xmas is a time for giving so from around 13th or 14th December Phantom G will be giving all of the interweb some presents. Details will follow nearer the time.
OTE fan from way back who just stumbled onto the archives, and wow! This is a goldmine and absolutely well worth the donations per show.
If I may request a couple of shows to get bumped up the restoration ladder, The Sample Show (Aug. 94) is fantastic and I would love to replace my long-worn-out cassette copy, and Sugar and Spice (June 94) was on my to-do list for quite a while.
Excuse me but we are also very interested in having u on our show to advertise your skills or promote your company. We air 5 nights a week and all episodes go directly to youtube Youtube.com/videocitytv & videocity.tv, and Open-Vision TV. You will also receive a DVD of your air-clip as well as an email attachment as well as being blasted in our newsletter. THERE IS NO BETTER EXPOSER OPPORTINITY THAN THIS ONE SO HOLLA!
Please email: videocitytv@aol.com
or call 646-353-9074
Leonard Croft
Managing A&R
‘For those of you wii owners, GET SILENT HILL SHATTERED MEMORIES!!! Best game ever, really hard and fun adn it messes with your head something fierce.’
Not to turn this into the Penny Arcade forums, but this is the bit I would lime for truth. I didn’t actually find it super hard at all (apart from one chase sequence early on), but it is very different from a lot of other games out there, and is really well put together. I’m debating about how to play through the second time, since I went for honest answers and reactions the first time around (the psyche profile stuff is extremely neat, and in some respects quite accurate).
Well, gosh ‘Negativland’, if that is, in fact, your real name,
You’re REALLY GOOD!
And, I can only assume that YOU LIKE DOING IT….
but, if you don’t , then you’ll permit me a bit of time to mourn the end of a nice flow of ‘art’…….
I understand, things come to an end, and, if that’s the end, it’ll be missed.
And, if ‘bugs enter butts’, and something else is created, I’ll be around to ‘check it out’!
Enjoy you’re retirement.
Negativland, if it is done, then it is done. I will miss you, for one.
Will OTE continue? I’d like to think so. Have you got Suicide Man on standby to tell your heartbroken fans to kill themselves if they can’t get over news of your split? (they did it for Take That).
It’s been a great run, and some really fine albums to boot. No-one is getting any younger. You should all move in with the Weatherman and Dick Goodbody to the Negativland retirement home. Your quiz and cleaning needs will be adequately filled.
im bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill you
Re:200
As a fan of Commercialism, I would like to thank Negativland on it’s decision to to sell out to the baser instincts of….i guess…me…
and finally release a quality version of “It’s all in your head FM”.
As to the question of whether you’ve done enough, I would say that it’s a matter of perspective. From my perspective, I would always ask for more because as an American, I have no shame.
You should find Ritalin Ruckus at the link above. I did have a version that was all one mix and also covers etc but I think that must be on the old PC. Everyone else should have a listen to this too, it’s some great mashup stuff.
The above is the Ritalin Ruckus link as promised a couple of days ago. I tried posting on here a few times, but it wasn’t working, hence the 3 posts where one would do…..
Merry Xmas to all, and don’t forget to donate directly to the ECC site if you like what you hear…
Skewed, stylized dirt and the Safe Muffins Gross Cart is always changing size. Sorry about that, just checking and I know I probably don’t what I’m talking about. Oh, and by the way, see what’s new over on DUMB.
Might I suggest, as one last hurrah :
Taking the “THERE IS NO GOD” mantra to the next level:
“THERE IS NO ART!”
Disc one: Visual Art
Disc two: Audio Art
I know Don believes that Art is Dead. With a nice ‘history mix’, he can prove it!
I perfect final nail in the Negativland ‘experiment’!
Don’t leave us with a whimper….. give us a BANG!!
In non-related news, I’ve found an agent to ’shop around’ me book!
A fun little ‘romp’ about reincarnation & a ‘nut-case’ who tries to destroy Michelangelo’s Statue of David! My explanation/ theory of the death of art is in there, and uses Negativland as an example… once I feel the agent is ‘getting somewhere’. I’ll post it up here!
I know that this might not be the best time for a first time author to try and ‘hock his wares’, but, between the success of ‘teenage-vampires’ and a movie that’s on it’s way to becoming the highest grossing movie of all time, I get the feeling that ‘the rich’ are doing just fine! There’s got to be quite a few people NOT feeling the pinch, as most of us are!
Good luck with that, Vince. I have been getting narratives and fairly strong song concepts in my dreams lately which is pretty weird since I rarely have lucid dreams at all. I’m going to commit them to paper and see how it goes.
Well, if Negativland really is giving up I might as well give you all a farewell gift while this forum and the Laurel Communications drop are both still extant. I found the following among the same group of reels I found the “On Top of the World” recording(s):
Negativland isn’t giving up. But you probably won’t see us playing live in Your Town anymore. Time has marched over us. Of course, if we really DID quit on our 30th anniversary, that would be ritualistically appropriate, as there are 30 members of Negativland, 30 albums, 30 tracks on the new album, 30 days in quite a few months of the year…………
I never understood where all the Negativland-is-over thing came from in the first place. The only thing I can figure is it came from the ‘in case you hadn’t noticed…’ remark on Over The Edge a month or so back, which struck me as less of a declaration of anything than a statement of the obvious. Negativland never stuck me as the sort of group who’s progress you would track by album releases.
They were ‘multimedia’ well before the term became hip (and then tired), and the fact that Over The Edge is still on the air, and the It’s All In Your Head FM live shows demonstrate that the various members were still willing to do stuff both individually and collectively.
30 years? This is also the 30 year anniversary of Severed Heads, which is being celebrated by what is likely to be their (or, HIS, rather) very last live performance this weekend. Viva Heads!
Negativlamd
Alright, Let’s be prefunctly clear.
Yes, Negativland is claiming to be breaking up into solo projects, if not breakibng off into simultaneous retirement. But that’s not the end of any world we’re aware of. This actually frees up several channels for unknown new and improved versions of suspected art that doesn’t care about the constraints and compromises of commercial success, regardless of so-called “quality.”
Will we be remembered, if at all, by our studio recordings? Or, will we be called to the mind of the rare and increasingly distracted fan as a symbol of psychological defense against media reality creation? who can say?
But it’s not over yet. And by that we mean it’s probably over, let’s be clear about that. Just watch the value increase. Hang on to anything you’ve got and wait for the right moment.
Poor weatherman is getting old though, is it just me or is negativland widely unpopular with the female variety of humanistic masses of flesh? I know one or two women that like it, of course all the music that my fellow people listen to know sounds like crap and is the same thing over and over again, i guess stability is in.
Yes, now that THAT’S cleared up, might I ask a question (or two):
WHY DID SST GIVE YOU A CONTRACT IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Was “Escape From Noise” made BEFORE the fire?
Had they heard it before they signed you?
I’m not asking to be sarcastic. I just figure there’s a story behind what (for me) is the closest the ’80’s got to an album as great as “We’re Only IN IT For The Money”/”Lumpy Gravy” (with a little bit of “The Who Sell Out” for good measure!).
There was an earlier post that said you can’t see progression in Negativland’s body of work, and I have to disagree. There’s quite a nice progression from the first three albums to “Escape”, and I was interested in the creative process …..
If you’re not interested in dredging up the past, I’ll understand.
PS. My wife LOVES Negativland! She was with me at DC Space, back in ‘89, when I told her, “You’re gonna have to share my love of THIS BAND!”, and bought everything they made. She was also by my side when they came to Vegas, a few years back!
Crosley Bendix here, and I just thought it to be necessary at this pointed position to make any attempt possible to keep The Negativland together as the culturally engaged group they’ve always been.
Often it’s the physical mechanics that underlie the operation of anything, including individual egos and the motivations that drive them.
Word on the in-house grapewine is that it’s property division that now prevents the total dissipation of one of the greatest sonic underground phenoms ever.
Who owns what? Now, on the other hand, a specific piece of equipment can be crucial to that first impression of someone’s first solo record after leaving an unknown group. But, since it’s been known since the Bible that everyone can’t have everything, maybe this property division dispute is a scolding sign from above that The Negativland is nothing if not together. Let’s hope so, anyway.
I have set up this environment for further and deeper and realer timeishly transfering of ASCII dataism for interpretation and insinuedo of Negativ Landing and Universal Media InterWeb Net. It’s also a place that will, undoubtedly, “waste your time” while all the other opportunities for real social contact go under the fashion of “computer geek” for “Unabashed Awareness” of those who continue their stream of conscious meanderings in text form. No longer will you wonder “Where do these people hang out?” as this will be OUR final destination in social architecture beyond tactile embarrassments. Join us as you may.
Point your Internet Relay Chat client to:
irc.lycaeum.org and the channel #Negativ
Any other ACTUAL suggestions are open for discussion.
I read posts like 1-35 and gave up….got down here to the bottom…I have seen that some of these names have been posting for years on….that’s cool…..I have been listening to negativland for like 3 years now…and Yeah Crosley a couple postings ahead of me is right..any equipment I own is cool to use if somebody gives a shit…(very little audio equp. two numark usb turntables {nice kind} and a korg km202 and a yamaha 1996 mini disc 8-track (nicer than it sounds)..I have many many records that I have not heard I have a hard time trying to make these sort of “mashups” because I have not the time to listen to all of them (let alone read)…because I work…no wait….I got laid off today…fuck yeah…get at least 2 months of unemployment to work with….what would George Clinton do ? and not having met either “PhantomGuitarist” or “vincent cannata” would ladly watch a YouTube video of them making out ooh too skewed
In light of the Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission ruling, you guys are admitting defeat at just the right time. Everything is business now, or soon will be.
Little did the Libertarians know the new world order would be Capitalist Collectivism, and that they’d be instrumental in forging their own chains.
As a conceptual leap never before tried on the Internet, we have decided to make this chapter the last chapter, meaning it will never end. Haven’t you ever wondered how long a page can be? Well, we have, and oh boy, now we’re gonna find out!
(Calm down, just jerk your sidebar scroll button to the bottom to quickly get to the new posts.) Otherwise, time is totally and forever continuous here, as it should be everywhere.
Just an inside tip on reality - By selfishly eliminating the constantly technical chore of creating ever new chapters, the founding execs of Negativland may be underhandely using this formatting ploy to further psychologically acclimate the audience to the coming demise of The Negativland. These creeps are slightly more concerned with assuaging the social/cultural shock and despair which becomes more and more inevitable as the final Negativland curtain calls and falls, replacing any semblance of joint creative output. Well, maybe some dope will come in time…
Re 265: Or your just making it more complicated than it needs to be and that they are just busy with other stuff to worry about making us new chapters. Oh and speaking of failure i’ve got a fail story: I was driving to speedway to get coffee this morning and i pull into the turning lane to drive in, so i wait for the light to turn green and I try to turn and the car wouldn’t move! Needless to say I had failed on the spot.
“Copywrite Criminals” finally play here last night. Mark got a total of ONE MNUTE air-time. I was also surprised that there was no Trade Mark G! AND, it was only LESS THAT AN HOUR LONG!
Oh, well. I guess it was more of a “Sampling 101″, than something for me.
The CREEPS. The audience gives me the creeps. Why else does Negativland hardly ever email anyone back?? The National Cynical Network sure took its tole on Negativland, and for once.. THEY WERE RIGHT!
Let’s all Be a bit more dumb.
The simpler, more forgettable truths will always repeat themselves. Just when you thought you had witness everything…
Now that Negativland is stopping production Dr. Linear Syntax and I can regurgitate and spin their material into it’s TRUE meaning and final destiny indefinitely without merit.
Just as long as they are willing to pay the webmaster.
Someone’s having a bit of fun at our expense, I think, and I appreciate that.
It’s a bit like the time Adult Swim went through their first batch of mass cancellations, and fans went all nuts on their message boards. As a way of promoting the upcoming new season of Aqua Teen Hunger Force, they slipped in these little messages in the commercials like ‘Final Season’ and so forth, just to add a bit more fuel to the fire.
Of course, just cos we said we’re quitting doesn’t mean we actually are quitting. Much like just cos it says Negativland doesn’t mean we are Negativland.
Well, who’s we? Who runs the weekly radio program that inspired media interfacing? Who worked and evolved out of bedroom recording to complain about how shitty the concept of personal creative rights are when involved in mass-produced exploit? Who else had their fun, rode the tour Monarch and flew into the retiring, diminished enthusiasm? Who else cleans obsessively and loves the more simpler things in life? Who else takes care of this website?
I don’t know anyone else who can achieve THOSE kind of goals….
Or was that sarcasm?
Fans of Over the Edge might enjoy the internet radio show, The Rivers Edge, hosted by Catfish Rivers, the bottom feeder with flow, takes you down deep below, to scrounge the sounds of the undergrounds for emerging sounds he hopes you love, just as much as he does…turn on and tune in! Saturdays 11 PM EST http://spfradio.yage.net/
thanks for the sounds, noises and musics continuums. my tag is scope8 and i make sounds that most folk avoid.my noises made by me but only at the time i was making them. now on a cloud in a swedish server a couple of time zones away .not many samples noises like goats…. they roam. chewing uplobes. (giving milk?!) is it warner messing with the neg flow? time zones …. elusive. hope u like c**e as much as p**si something about a creative conmans?
This is just a OOGA OOGA! from my end on the archives. Please keep them growing. I miss some of the one’s on now defunct tapes, like Your Brain and You, Spooked, the one with the drunk/psychotic clown. Bring them and I will pay. In the meantime I’ll continue to plot the demise of these four dimensions from my private lobe here in angled space. Please email me when new old OTE’s come along. My listed email is open, but if tied up, you can always contact my Associated from Yuggoth for more details…
This just in. My Associates have developed a strange allergy. And though as talking monkey myself, I find the flavors of said fruit quite refreshing, not to mention its clockwork diuretic properties… my associates have put this fear of theirs in me. They have posted subliminally to me likely evidence of the fruits’ religion and collective organization– also disturbing hints of talking monkey/[redacted] fruit collaborations. My fungal associates have become wary of a mammal-flora axis to rival there long standing they drew up with our folks back in the James A. Garfield years. But I digress. suffice it to say that, whether or not these little red friends have insinuated themselves into the american harvest feast as a poultry condiment, they should not be trusted. A photograph [source redacted] of one of their emissaries can be viewed here. http://www.hamsterizer.com/Art/images/Items/MiGo01b.jpg
As can be immediately recognized, the mesmeric capacity of the red entities’ manifests itself most intensely toward those of impressionable minds, such as the two children shown here being groomed by the anthropomophized fruit to become sleeper operatives for the new mauve empire.
By all means, exercise caution around the fruit, however inertial they may seem.
I have already written too much. The fungal ones threaten me from the ever watchful angles. Their tendrils itch at the base of my skull.
‘Bono is no man of peace–he has yet to speak out against any war. Bono is part owner of Pandemic/Bioware, producers of Mercenaries 2, a video game which simulates an invasion of Venezuela.’
I enjoyed everything about that article, but this bit rang rather hollow. Are we still equating real violence with fictional violence? Really? Is everyone who sits down to play Modern Warfare giving tacit approval to war in the Middle East? I think the writer might be showing their age a bit (rather like when Ebert declared videogames-cannot-be-considered-art and kicked up that hornets nest).
It’s the “Helter Stupid” argument ….. you don’t learn how to play the guitar from “Rock Hero”, but there WILL be that small of kids that will put the game down, and want to learn how to play a REAL GUITAR!!!!!!
re 291: That just brings to mind the Guitar Queero episode of South Park. And the easier, more addictive, futile Heroin Hero where you hit up whilst chasing a dragon that is always just that little bit out of reach. Genius.
Yes, that was funny….. but, I DO think about what have ‘influenced’ me, and….. I feel that music I LIKE has influenced me!
Therein was the joke of “Helter Stupid’, IMO; if all the good things about music made you act a certain way, you’ve proven the religious zealots right….
Re 293: You’ve gotta practice your dissociation. When commercials come on the TV, I sort of cease to exist. I usually can’t remember even a single product they’ve just advertised as soon as the program comes on again. It’s barely even controllable at this point.
I thought the joke of Helter Stupid was the ending. Over-saturation of overlapping media hot-heads and their struggle for attention before investigating the truth. Even when some of our most dangerous illusionary visionaries have “seen it all.” In the end, it was all a big act and hardly a pinch from the crowd ever understood how it was all one big funny joke.
Too much art. Too much dada. But how did we use it?
—
“We don’t have enough data(dada)”
“That’s one of my problems today. Books, files, photographs. Newsreels by the million mile.”
“But I should think he’d be happy to have all this material.”
“But how’d he use it…”
“And yet it goes on and on and on..”
“Now I know too much and find it hard to make out any patterns. Just clatter and babble and get the feel and move on before I get buried in videotape.”
“It’s a monsterous joke.”
“This record you’re listening to now is one.”
—
“.. and you say ‘You see what I’m sayin?’ and they say ‘Oh, oh, we see what you’re sayin.’ And they still don’t see what you’re sayin’.” [Manson had obvious delusion, but a reflection on how the details always get missed because of lack of ethical credentials.]
“This god damn fucking thing is an act.. It’s all a fucking act.”
[And we close with Edward R. Murrow's famous ice breaker upon the buildup of fear.]
It is indeed All In Your Head, but what IS your head?
All Headites are headily advised to track down a copy of ‘The Kingdom of Infinite Space’ by Raymond Tallis. A great book about your head, and what it is to have one.
I just now notice (and perhaps I’m a dullard), but do you suppose that that’s the voice of Thurl Ravenscroft on No Business track Keep Rollin’?
Sure sounds like him. Don’t know why I didn’t notice that before. He was the voice of Tony Tiger, lots of Disney productions (the Ghost Host of Haunted Mansion) and so much more.
Have the OVE downloads requiring $3.00 donation been discontinued? How do I get a refund or at least get ahold of someone to find out what is going on?
It seems odd to accuse us on one hand of being gay, and on the other to presume we’re into women being exploited on the internet.
Is there poverty and injustice in the world? There sure is. Has there ever been a time in human history where this hasn’t been the case? Is it your contention that until these inequities in human existence are remedied, there is no place for art? I’m afraid this argument ignores both why people create art in the first place, or why people appreciate it. Man (and, indeed, women) cannot live by bread alone.
Is all pornography based on exploitation? Is all human labor of any kind based on exploitation? There is no excuse for human slavery, but in the case of pornography, the relationships are more complex. I don’t think you could say to someone like Mika Tan, or others in the profession who have shown themselves to be articulate and forthcoming about what they do, that they are slaves and not be laughed at.
Given how much more vocal Negativland and the fan community have been about their position on religion, I’m surprised there hasn’t been more trolling on that end of the scale. You see, stuff like the role of art in society, or the nature of pornography, is stuff we can have an intelligent argument about. When it comes to religion -bring on the bat shit crazy, lady!
When I say ‘us’, I just mean in a general fan community sense, and not the band. When I re-read what I wrote, I realized I wasn’t exactly being clear. I’m just another nobody in the internet, and have nothing to do with Negativland, and nothing I’ve said is a reflection on what they say or believe. I’m only speaking for myself.
then look at how the sausage is made on that subject (porn), don’t assume that this has anything to do with anyone being gay (who’s to say I am not gay?) and form educated opinions from a separate line of thought after you reasearch the matters mentioned. no one needs to tell me how to think or feel about art, and none should tell you. its not a cult, is it?
btw - one example of one person who pretends to not be slightly used by the porn industry does not undo the whole subset of human trafficking and painful unjust sexism in the US that underlies that whole endeavor. if labor laws were a bit more just, and the distribution of social and economic power more levl, perhaps i could bother to argue this point.
but i dont give a shit about the laws or the first amendment on this subject, i give a shit about parity and fairness and exploitation of one subset at the hands of another. and until our culture embodies such things, i would not for a second pretend that this is a level playing field and that we have an “art” argument on our hands.
and what makes you think i am a troll who belives in god? or that i have no background on the subject with which to make an educated opinion based on personal experience?
thats why i made the penis-gazing comment. the world is a lot, lot, lot larger than the tired old assumption that one is anti sex when one challenges the status quo of males on this subject. its a giant frat party, and gay or straight, you are immediately in the frat at age, what, 10? 11?
and if negativland were to reject this underyling sexism, i might decide they were not status quo. but i have come to this decision as a result of observation, serious research, and personal experience. status quo! what worse insult could i conjure?
i suppose i should be more clear. i meant penis-gazing as in the true love that one man shares with his own dick at the personal expense, true human use cost or reduction of the other sex (or perhaps just at the expense of the object being used.)
if negativland wants to undermine the status quo, they should not be such sheeple on these subjects. it just ends up coming off like raging against the microwave (suburban angst).
except that its moot, because if you think about it, no one really gives a very real shit nor have they ever about what women think on any of this. unless it already lines up with how the porn industrial complex says how women should act, want, think and fuck.
under the spreading chestnut tree
i sold you
and you sold me.
the bullet in the brain, winston finally loves big brother most of all.
btw - rupert murdoch and newscorp are one giant handjob of media, selling “our” sex. we dont even have sex anymore, we have porn. the internet turned this whole idea of creative commons and made it into McMedia. There’s your freedom, bought and sold back to you as “liberty”
oh and fellas, keep doing those mental kegstands while goldman sachs sucks ALL the remaining milk out of your shake.
while they had you jerking it to the truly “empowered” assjam 4, you weren’t paying attention, and they stole everything, including your erection for actual sex (oh, but they sell you the pills for that too. except you are most likely to use it for more of their McSex). these grifters have a reaming planned that will be the ATM of ATMS.
That’s unfortunate. This comment bored needs some shaking up.
A good read on this subject is the “About Men” section of Mike Lew’s “Victims No Longer.” It explains in detail how the Western traditional male gender role is the result of the physical and sexual abuse of boys. I’m sure there are volumes written about how the same is true of the Western traditional female gender role–since boys are beaten if we show weakness, as girls are beaten if you show strength, it’s only socially acceptable to discuss female victimization. Child abuse is, in fact, training (i.e. brainwashing) for economic and political oppression.
well, now that you put it that way (intelligently) i can say that i fully agree with you. I am so used to being attacked for suggesting that partaking of orgasm “consumption” (as opposed to human being engagement) completely ties into our upbringing in violent cultures.
alice miller wrote about the german culture’s influence on the nazi party’s rise to power. child abuse was rampant, the patriarchal nightmare became the total dehumanization of human beings.
there is a lot of good work finally being written by men on this subject, including by a man named robert jensen and a documentary called “the price of pleasure” that goes step by step into the deepening issues surrounding commodifying disparity, some of the footage references chilean torture techniques that became porn movies, and i cant help but think that it influenced the torture used in abu grahib etc (anal rape, waterboarding, etc.)
i think that negativland and other types of art collectives have massive potential to re-commit to a movement that speaks to our mass dehumanization and help the cause of bettering our situation instead of just contributing to the continuing downward spiral. but they have demonstrated a more of a desire to honor the male need to defend using porn images, or made it somehow an inside joke (the vid of the anti porn bot at work) that does not get the complexity of this issue at all. therefore, it only makes it seem to the loser consumers of this crap, that a challenge to it is anti sex instead of anti fascist.
for those folks who use the file sharing sites mainly to get access to this stuff, the idea that fighting for a frontier of electronic freedom without regulation is potentially dangerous.
the unregulated freemarket and the unregulated sadism impulse encouraged in males is killing our planet. literally and figuratively.
thank you for taking me seriously. i am so fucking tired of it always creating a deeper rift between males and females (assuming you are male :), rather than leading to an honest/harsh discussion of how and why we ended up looking so goddamned over entertained and infantilized.
Ah yes, Miller has long been one of my favorites. But I don’t want you to get me wrong–I’m 90% dehumanized myself, it’s just that I’m aware I’m an emotional cripple.
well then, wake the fuck up. our whole entire planet is dying. and males in fact actually have the upper hand. remove it from your dick and pay attention.
I hope you understand that waking the fuck up can be a long, arduous, confusing and painful process, especially for those of us who have been lied to or brutalized from the start or for long periods. And that insulting such mentally ill people from a stance of moral self-righteousness makes one an agent of oppression and is only likely to cause defensive reactions. That’s how they (rich males, not all males) keep us at each others’ throats.
And I don’t want you to misinterpret me–I’m not saying most males aren’t abusive. But if you’ve really read your Miller, you know that every single one of us who has been abused–male and female–inevitably develop abusive tendencies that must be struggled with to be overcome. A little boy does not have an upper hand over Margaret Thatcher.
tell me about it. i won’t bother to list my background because you will immediately vomit, and i struggle with it each day just like you do. but as a woman, i have no choice as to whether or not i will survive (vicodin/vodka being the other option) in this man’s world, and i NEED allies from the male sex because without them, nothing will change. but if males only see me as 3 holes and two hands for orgasm use, essentially, not someone with hopes and dreams and a brain, then I am reduced to less than human. I simply refuse to accept that as the definition of me. i am just as valuable as man.
and vaginas are just as fun and compelling to play with as peniss are, and yes we could all make excuses for our limitations. but we literally have very few choices left. change or die.
change or die. i have vicodin/vodka or change. which do you recommend.
we need your help, not your excuses. and palin would be worse than thatcher, as she sees gays as worthy of death. we have to wake the fuck up, all of us.
tell me about it. i won’t bother to list my background because you will immediately vomit, and i struggle with it each day just like you do. but as a woman, i have no choice as to whether or not i will survive (vicodin/vodka being the other option) in this man’s world, and i NEED allies from the male sex because without them, nothing will change. but if males only see me as 3 holes and two hands for orgasm use, essentially, not someone with hopes and dreams and a brain, then I am reduced to less than human. I simply refuse to accept that as the definition of me. i am just as valuable as man.
and vaginas are just as fun and compelling to play with as peniss are, and yes we could all make excuses for our limitations. but we literally have very few choices left. change or die.
change or die. i have vicodin/vodka as my exit strategy, or change. which do you recommend?
we need your help, not your excuses. and palin would be worse than thatcher, as she sees gays as worthy of death. we have to wake the fuck up, all of us.
i didn’t mean for that to post twice. there is no “remove” for edits.
98% of the porn industry is hetero demand. the increasing demand and lessening of effect (as the addictive use diminishes the satiation from the repeated views and boredom factor) has driven porn directly into violence. not only has every male i have interacted with sexually in the last 5 years tried some stupid demeaning unfulfilling idea on me that they gleaned form porn, i wasnt even aware that was why the sex was so bad until i did my online research and looked at what was being looked at.
so not only am i abused at work (sexually and socially) but i am abused by lovers who dont bother to question their exposure damage.
you want to talk to someone who could choose mental illness, talk to me. but i have nowhere to go, no safety net to fall into should i decide to succumb. i want to see the humanity in males, but am given rare opportunity. your brief encouragement of my opinion immediately turned into “but I am not one of them that can care”… which was abusive as well.
so why not reflect on what makes us human, what makes us a community, what would actually help change this issue of divisive abuse, and work toward that? baiting me into sharing something and then making me the perpetrator of your further victimization is pointless.
I’m waiting for the general, world acceptance of abstaining from having a child. Especially to those cultures that say a large family is the only way to make it into their kingdom of ghod. There are too many people to fall into competing with eachother beyond what we can manage before turning calibalistic. Which we are.
I think people should masturbate as much as often and to know how to stop masturbating and using mental changes to help being more productive and less genital-focused.
There’s a lot of humor in mocking or just being in some sorty of exploitation of homosexuality, these days. It seems that many children are opening up to the open understanding of sexual preference when what is appropriate to display in public. But well.. these are children and are the ones who innocently change the rules, discretely.
The issues over porn are rather in a league of their own. I wonder how anyone can infiltrate that industry.. unless you work doing that sort of thing. If in case Human Trafficking is really that much of a porn-related thing. Some people use computers for extensions of what they do, like type. Or for gathering information. A lot more people are on the internet than have been, well exponentially back in time. Finding out how much the internet seems to lean on advertising and mainly advertising for porn sites seemed to dominate the net for too long. It seems like viral marketing is a large issue over how the many causes for dominance in society.
And whether people are using porn obsessively, then, well.. That’s yet another type of person who uses the same internet that many different types of people are using.
I think you’re doing something good for changing or promoting a great opportunity for you or a member of Negativland would like to use their ART to explore these topics. Having a strong voice on something rather densely topical… Once people reject their god and realize who controls everything and then go shoot the arrow with what’s really behind psychological, pataphysical as well as mass population control issues as an expense of their willingness to follow authrority.
There’s just too much here to discuss in one sitting.. I’ll probably have to clarify my writing later.
Peace
the topic is endless, and art is endless. but pornography is not art. i have no problem with the naked human body or sex in all its manifestations. but sex is not porn/and porn should not be equated with sex. in my personal opinion i have to masturbate because males are losing the ability to connect and enjoy actual experiences with actual women.
i did have a child, which is why my worldview is so absolutely powerfully and painfully skewed toward asking people to pay attention. i wasn’t planning it, but i am a buddhist and couldnt kill. albeit i have no problem with anyone else making a different decision nor would i recommend the choice i made. the whole issue reminds me of the movie/book ‘the road’…. i don’t recommend having a child. the world cannot sustain it, and it is your heart walking around outside your body, literally physically painful.
there is great data and research being done on this subject. i highly recommend the price of pleasure (some of it on youtube) as the commodification of orgasm is a GIANT business and men are total dupes. no one is empowered in this environment except the people making money. its truly fucking sick (and i have a high tolerance for peoples kinks - but this is not kink, its advertising for a totalitarian state.
I totally agree about sex becoming less passionate and the “dating scene” (shudder) is more of a meat market and compliance to standards which have quickly crept into a mainstream stoner mentality of “Getting high and fucking” but totally missing the point about why you and your partner are a couple except that you do realize that you can’t live without each other. At least that’s how it feels. I’m frustrated because I hear this from a lot of women all the time and I’m always amazed at why I’m never a pick. Is the allure more of a passion for danger in order to gain access to a very selective and short period of time to get the message across? Or that rare chance to dig your hands in deep and change it all… But of course I always have to wonder why women don’t chose me? Is it because I wasn’t being aggressive enough? Or am I so mixed up that it feels like no one would even want to get near my psychoses… I’m just kind of questioning my thoughts at this point.
I will check out “price for pleasure” It has definitely has been part of many topics that I ponder based on its duality process and bifurcating results. But I’d like to find out more about who’s there to moderate the pumped up porn crowd who get attention with money instead of thoughts and words.
It’s a huge thing and I’d love to learn more about how to engage in changing long-due social fallacies.
haha! I love when this woman asks “Why on the face?” and he takes it so blatantly obscure and then he had to kinda huff out his decision which is some mantra of all those key-terms that everyone has to know in order to work like robots.
And that really made me wonder “Why on the face?” (That should be the title of a project) I’ve never understood how obfuscated bizarre kink has gone to include a tradition from Japan turn into something that takes up 4 hours on a VHS tape. For something that seems so stupid and amplify it, EXPONENTIALLY, is the whole joke. “Well, since I jerk it every day, I’m gonna check this out for the laughs and then wank off to something else.” or whatever. I see no novelty there. And the porn industry seems, instantly, like some super redundant short scenario-based reality than what everyone experiences living a real life.
But anyway.. That was just another look at “porn” …. Lots of other things to consider.
This is going back about a decade and a half ago, during Plunderpalooza (I had to look that one up, because I didn’t remember that particular detail). There was a screening of the film Sonic Outlaws, and Mark Hosler was the special guest.
I don’t remember if it was before or after the screening of the film, but he took a short Q&A session from those of us in the audience. You’ll recall this was around the time Dispepsi was released. Although I don’t think it had an official release at this time, it was also when Negativland had that cut up piece ‘OJ And His Personal Trainer Kill Ron And Nicole’ floating around.
Well, one of the audience members brought up the topic of this particular piece, and was clearly pretty agitated about it. It’s been too long to remember the specific words, but he pressed Mark with ‘isn’t this really disrespectful to the victims’, and ‘as an artist, don’t you feel you have a responsibility’, and that sort of thing. Mark, in his response, basically shrugged his shoulders and said, ‘I don’t really care about any of that stuff’. His position was basically, he is an artist and he’s going to do whatever he wants.
It was probably around this time, if not a little after, where he was involved with that debate series regarding art and copyright law, and he basically said the same thing. He recognizes that he on one extreme end of the scale, but in fact he really doesn’t care that much for any laws or regulations that limit what he can do as an artist (with specific reference to appropriating material from other artworks). I’m certain there are video and audio clips available to be found regarding these debates, which I’m fairly certain were held in Toronto as well.
Cut to a decade or so later, and here we are. Is the position that the internet, and flow of information and speech, needs to regulated going to be a position that Mark or Don or anyone else in the band likely to embrace?
Isn’t that a futile position to hold anyway? The Great Firewall of China isn’t much of a barrier for getting information in or out for those will even a small amount of savvy. The Iranian government, when they tried to shut down national internet access during the crackdown immediately after the stolen election, failed to keep the protesters from communicating with each other, and from those videos and images reaching the outside world.
Isn’t the free flow of information the best tool against fascism anyway? The master tools cannot be used to bring down the master’s house.
did you ever get to a point where you though, gee, maybe i could form an opinion based on my own personal experience, and have that opinion counter that of your cult leader? cuz i think using your own noggin on certain subjects, not just the opinion of your favorite artist/cult?
i said regulation. lack of self-regulation is FUCKING KILLING OUR SPECIES. Now, i know mouth breathing is fashionable these days, and taking what you hear in the indie media as gospel the way we go about making our decisions about right and wrong, but there are literally more slaves on our planet now than ever before, and in short order, we could all become that. it is actually that simple.
freedom of information and fair and regulated usage laws go hand in hand. one without the other is total fucking panedmonium.
mark’s own issues with being empathically challenged probably stem from some abuse he suffered and internalized and is now acting out against the world at large. i dont take that as an excuse to perpetrate hurt on others. there is really no excuse for it, except cowardice.
to my mind, an answer like that is akin to an ostrich putting its head in the sand. there is not a whole lot else i can say. the world and its citizens are my concern, not some jack-offery hacked out “social critique” with no core intention except getting attention.
the rest is up to karmic law. thats the real bitch here, not me.
let me rephrase myself here, its hard to write in light grey on a white background:
did you ever get to a point where you though, gee, maybe i could form an opinion based on my own personal experience, and have that opinion counter that of your cult leader? cuz i think using your own noggin on certain subjects, not just the opinion of your favorite artist/cult might actually lead to some motivation toward an actual future for life on earth, not just more shoulder shrugging and self-absorption. its a lonely life when your only reply to these kind of moral conundrums are “im in it for me”….
and the nazi party had hecka sick graphics and little regard for the impact of their artwork too… negativland is no nazi party, but the “why think for yourself?” brownshirt issue starts to show up here a bit in your argument…
oh and mark, you wanna reply to this one, or should I?
“haha! I love when this woman asks “Why on the face?” and he takes it so blatantly obscure and then he had to kinda huff out his decision which is some mantra of all those key-terms that everyone has to know in order to work like robots.”
i won’t fuck with your idolatry anymore, gf,
remember: even the buddha said if you see me on the road, kill me.
never stop questioning the cruelty impulse, in yourself, in those you admire, in those you are angry with.
(humility was never popular with the indie rock dudes anyway and porn will never die it appears, until its pried out of the cold dead hand of the last male left on the planet)
good luck with the dating stuff, phalaris. most people are too stupid to be kind or responsible, and that includes women. but sometimes, yeah, you need to be humble and bold at the same time. look out for yourself, there are a ton of wolves in sheeps clothing, “looking out for number one” i suppose is “how we do it” nowadays.
I wasn’t aware that Negativland were single-handedly responsible for the world’s problems, or for solving them. Or that a few dudes (I’m presuming most of us on here are male) on an obscure comment page will have the will or the power to save the world.
I hope you stick around though, girl, this board really could do with some shaking up.
well perhaps i will. im from the punk rock school of billy bragg. we are all now responsible. read that link to the post regarding the era of delusion. much of negativlands work has had to do with mass delusion, or perhaps perosnal delusion, but on some issues, they are so far behind the times its kind of fun for me to throw a molotov every now and again so see what lights.
thats not to say i am violent or encourage violence. raised in violence, i abhorr it. this world is not a vacuum, and our thoughts and creations ripple. should i raise my best creation with no morals and send her out in the world and say i dont care what comes of it, thats none of my business? or expose her to the worst of us and say “its just creation” and i have nothing to do with it once it leaves the house.
i read on ’shit my dad says’ page that you are only as good as the worst child you raised. if one ends up president and the other kills your mom, then you failed. i would like to see negativland go out in a blaze of glory, not just pfft out like a geezer status quo. why quit now. but to finally use their considerable brain power and take a bit more responsiblity for their words and deeds.
btw- i am an artist/musician/teacher/tech geek/activist. this board is certainly not the be all and end of all of my mission to wake us all the fuck up. but it said to write anything here, so i did. i obeyed the law. sorry to upend the apple cart about one’s precious porn, but that shit is scary, and in all truth men are clueless about the permanent miliarization scheme behind the mindfuck. i had a dumbass older brother, so perhaps i am permanently acting out my role as ballbusting little sister.
i saw him transform from murderous gacker to citizen of responsible contribution, some of it was just from my nagging him to stop playing with himself and take a look at the world around us. now hes contributing and avoiding addiciton.
the world needs all of us, and i need males to join the cause. we are divided, and more so everyday. the longer that lasts, the more the terrorists (the mafioso grifters in finance and government and industry) win.
It’s reassuring to know that, even on this little corner of the internet, you’ll find someone willing to compare someone else to a Nazi. That sort of rhetoric will certainly elevate the nature of the debate. I mean, I feel elevated. Don’t you?
well hey, as many of us have learned from writing about glenn beck, its fun to write the word nazi.
and you need to demonstrate a little more self reflection in your words, or i wont need to throw those little word molotovs at you.
also, your argument was so half-assed, and my only tactic was to shake the stupor off of you… it was such an obvious one, could you not just see it coming before you wrote that total lapdance to mark/don’s slightly comatose inability to ever have a reason for anything they do except that its “art”? i have taught art for 15 years, and usually when someone says that, its because they are defending a shitty piece of art. i can list literally 100s of times i have heard that defense. its tired.
btw - didn’t they have hecka sick graphics? and that movie ‘triumph of the will’, didn’t that just go out into the world and have no impact whatsoever?
My problem is that if we’re going to pin the “Pornographer” label to Negativland because they’ve never explicitly criticized porn and support an unregulated Internet, why not also pin the “Racist” label to them as well? They are all white, after all, and to my knowledge have sampled racists about as often as they’ve sampled pornography. There’s more evidence that they’re Communists. I certainly support them moving into deeper waters, as they have with “It’s All In Your Head,” “The Bottom Line,” and the “Trail of Feathers” and “Illumination” Over the Edges, but this debate seems a bit too reliant on ad hominem and argumentum ad ignorantiam. Or is there some interview in which one of them actually degended porn that I’m unaware of?
I never said they were pornographers. My critique is over the lack of regulation of this kind of material and their ongoing participation in the argument for NO regulation. To my kind of person, that means they can eventually start to post anything they want (not negativland, but those who exploit the lack of regulation to pursue horripliating endeavors through porn).
Read Naomi Klein’s shock doctine and find out what happens when total deregulation of our systems (any kind, be they communication, transportation, financial) are unregulated. Not only do the outcomes NOT justify the means, the end results totalitarianism in its worst form.
If i were not white maybe i would have a reason to call them out for being irresponsible on that issue. But that does not seem like a fair battle for me to pick. I wonder if Negativland has more than 2-5 black fans? anyone know?
goddammit, i cant see in this fucking stupid grey on white type window to check what im writing to make sure it makes sense.
degregulated markets take care of themselves, right? we are three steps from full frontal fascism due to that kind of thinking. the grifters dont give a shit about art and generally our types are the first to go, so im not for a second suggesting that negativland are creating that abhorrent content (except in the instance when it is hurting someone, to turn a blind eye and say too fucking bad is just immature - one should at least explore ones initial impulse to create hurtful stuff)… trust me, i have seen the shittiest artwork defended as if it were the fucking starry night (or whatever, just to pick a cliche)
we are at the point where some of us will change and survive, and some of us will not take notice of the impending need to change and will not make it. i would like to see most of us change so we can continue on and have better things to worry about than nuclear winter and wheat growing thin.
but thats just me. i guess being born a girl gives me an innate need to hope for a humane outcome for this species.
the regulations on obscenity laws for what could be posted on the internet in terms of porn (and trust me, im a fan of lenny bruce and cuss more than he ever did so its not a prudish sensibility that has me bring this up) went down the toilet when bill clinton took over. no surprise their, im sure he grew up in the playboy penthouse fratclub and all pussy was good pussy to bubba.
from there, the content started to get more and more explicit. the problem is in part due to financial disparity between the parties (male/female) and the lack of financial opportunities for women. and they need to keep upping the ante for the consumers to keep coming back for more. so what we see now are more and more and more violent/torture based images. and that shit works like meth. it totally takes over and totally ruins.
regulation and fair use means not that you cant ask for permission and be granted it, nor that one should be sued for sampling, etc, but that you are in fact saying “no, asshole grifters, you cannot take advantage of this open window to put up picture of you fucking a 5 year old”.
if you think i am asking to argue about ignorance, think again. i am asking for social responsibility. and this country has no moral obligation to its citizenry nor do we ask that of one another. so what do we get: worst case scenario again and again.
and yes, there is data that the increases in the technology have allowed younger and younger audiences to be exposed to this material and it is beyond what you saw in hustler when you first whacked it (if thats your thing). its total mind numbing horrible death of empathy.
and when you get to that point in a culture… what’s next?
You know, back on Write Anything Here (Chapter Four) one of Negativland asked for thoughts regarding the “current” failure of Capitalism with aims towards making a piece on the subject. That was in March of last year. I posted a couple of links (I have a whole folder of bookmarked articles regarding the crossovers between psychology and politics) but some of them got blocked as being spam! I hope they do do something on the subject.
i wrote on that same premise for my high school final paper (to get a scholarship out of poverty and destitution to go to college) from that cliched book.
i got the writing scholarship and the art scholarship. over 150 years ago.
one last note on the subject of sadism. both of my parents were sadistic. some of the abuse i suffered was borderline torture. i was exposed to porn as a way to make me more malleable by family members who used me for sex.
i grew up to find myself repeatedly in victim situations due to financial hardship. i have been used in the subject/object sense as an object and to be honest, most of those women you see in the videos and photos are faking liking it to get paid. or to be granted access to social strata they otherwise would not be allowed into.
it is very easy to forget what kind of boys club you live in if you have never lived outside of it.
from there, i have struggled to not only overcome sexual assault, but the childhood that prepared me to remain a victim and to remain an object and to remain someone who would be forever defined by man (via lover, father, boss, etc). I have been sexually harrassed at work more times than i can count on two hands. i have been subjected to sexism professionaly because rare is the male ego that can allow the critique of the power dynamic to shift beyond their vision of how that looks to them.
black people say they live in one world, and we white looking folks live in another. its the same concept.
this kind of stuff does hurt women. most if not all of them are abused by the industry. i know men like gentials, and but in fact, so do women. the difference is, in our culture, this material helps desensitize males not only to “intimacy” which is sex with love, but also the impulse not to require heirarchy, which does capitalism a ton of favors by stratifying us into half and half (not even counting skin color - just start there).
continue to ignore any/all of this and not only we women suffer, but men suffer too. do you think the majority of live captured german soldiers had regrets about not thinking more critically about their culture? I suspect they wished they had thought it through a little more before they just obediently signed on.
The saddest part of the internet ‘joke’ is: those who DO indulge in (and peddle) ‘internet nastiness’ CAN BE TRACED!!! The sad fact that they continue says something about our ‘gov’mint’! They are ALLOWED to continue.
I’m sure -girl- knows all about “The Franklin Scandal”, right?
Now is the time, if there ever was a time, for this Last Chapter nonsense to be cancelled. This page is WAY too long now, and is in real danger of dragging the whole internet down with it’s weight (in fact maybe that’s the plan, no dudes whacking off when the web implodes).
Girl, reading your posts, I have just the one question: Do you happen to have read any David Icke? Some of the statements you make just seem awful familiar to me. There is a case to be made that The World Is Fucked, and of course we all have a responsibility in the whole Fuckedness. I think that most Negativland fans are probably more ’switched on’ to this than most. Anyone who has listened to It’s All In Your Head has surely taken in some of the issues explored within there.
I don’t really see the problem with the ‘Hey it’s art and it may offend but it’s not my problem’ defence. I mean, obviously there is a line to be drawn somewhere, and for me torture, incest and paedophilia are all on the other side of that line. I don’t see any defence for such material. I also don’t really believe that Negativland’s Unregulated Internet includes such things. Surely it’s fairly reasonable to assume some sense of basic morality?
I haven’t taken that much time to formulate an argument here, I’m pretty much just throwing some thoughts out there, and I always leave room in my opinion for change should I be proven wrong or be shown something in a new light. That is the very definition of an open mind, which I try to have. It’s difficult when education, employment, news media and even quite a lot of the time leisure media, all actively try to produce closed minds. They’re so much more malleable after all. You only feel good about yourself when you buy this, or own that or fantasise about the other……
This board has been going very stale lately, it’s great to see some real debate on here.
well, christian, like my army of gay husbands (guess where i live) you don’t fit into that hetero club. there is another boys club for gay men that i hear all the time about that is just as fucked up as the one that torments women that you probably (hopefully) want nothing to do with. again, its sadism and dissociation, and the cruelty impulse that im worried about here - that is statistically much more common in males. and the club i was talking about was the hetero one, which is awful and abusive to males too, no doubt. and im sorry you had that happen.
more background - i grew up surrounded by organized crime, some in my family, most of it in the drug/sex circuit in las vegas. there were occasions when law enforcement and regulation actually did make things safer. for example. the legalization of prostitution made it so that stopped finding all those dead hooker in the desert at a certain point. just having a fucking security guard at the desk and a help call button under the mattress still saves countless thousands of lives.
can you see where i am going with my argument? if people cannot take back power and insist on ethics and if they won’t self-regulate, then it is the job of our organized, tax paid reglators to make sure they do.
also, you know the argument for small banks, local food, and bringing the stuff back from the hands of the larger industrial complex and back to the community. what if i just suggest you use your good ole imagination or your beloved to get off? what if i suggest that fetishizing anything makes it kind of an addiction, and that addiction keeps us in harness?
what if i suggest that the people who told me that those old disney princess movies i was letting my daughter watch would warp her into a little princess wannabe were RIGHT?
pg
no i dont know about david icke i formed this part of my opinion from recent personal experience. i recently found out that someone had taken naked pictures of me years ago without my awareness. coming out of my background and having been abused, i was not only disgusted to find out that he had been whacking it all those years with them, but that he had shared them with roommates. not only was the feeling very much akin to violation and rape, but that feeling also felt like “damn, if I’d known i was going to be in porn you would have had to pay me”.
this person is an ex, someone i thought had a heart, and also someone who put me in a position that was humiliating. so now do i not only feel the pain of ever person who was trafficked against thier will, but I dont’ take for a second the excuse that ‘ist just art mam, dont mind the severed heads”
and the reason why is say that is because i dissociate and come up with memories from some pretty sick things that happened that i would like to make into art. but i stop myself. i know once it exists in the world it is going to be open to interpretation, objectification, and that i will inadvertently hurt people who dont deserve it. the innocent. the hooker who’s body i did happen to come across. she deserves my mercy and love and not my more dehumanizing, fetishizing, and objectification.
thats my gut feeling, and you wont change it. dont even bother. i dont agree and i wont agree. i have been on both sides and i argue for us to be human beings instead of egocentric.
on the other hand, i am a giant fan of james baldwin, who endlessly shook up the status quo by poking sharp sticks into
THE MAN, not other men.
james baldwin poked soft things into other consenting men, something i am in support of and enjoy myself (soft poking by men).
Baldwin was willing to talk about it openly, blatantly, and still DEMAND civil rights legislation, in a time and place that didn’t want to hear and for much of his life deemed him on the other side of the argument. He still looks pretty right on to me.
oh and the guy who took the photos (i still dont know if i was roofied or if just drank too much wine before going to sleep) used them in his art. he showed me that art, and thought it would make me feel good.
so im passed out, he does his whatever with my sleeping naked body, makes art out of it, photos me, and then goes on to show it to me like im going to be proud.
jesus fucking christ theres my argument in a nutshell. you cant counter it, you wont counter it, and IM JUST as fucking stubborn on this issue as anyone you will ever encounter who tries to defend their porn.
now im off to whiten my teeth and clean my toilet bowl with the amazing new product i just bought off the internet.
Are you suggesting that a hypothetical male who has been sexually abused as a child and is disturbed by the torture debate in the news should be forbidden from describing similar things in a work of fiction because someone might find it triggering or someone else might find it arousing?
not for a second. the written word exploits no human bodies except the one doing the writing, and I assume that relationship is consensual.
if you were to do a photo essay or video demonstrating sexual torture and post it on the internet and it used actual boys or men young enough to look like boys, i would absolutely accuse you of being sick and irresponsible, and totally self-indulgent.
Jay Leno will be back on his old time slot soon, oddly enough, I’m predicting it will REVOLUTIONIZE The very way we LIVE our lives!! And now it’s raining.
i recommended any number of resources outlining my perspective. you parsed what i wrote to suit your agenda. its really silly to be that dense and victim-identified when its all sitting there on the INTERNET waiting to be READ.
Anyone who know my history on this board knows that I suckle at the intellectual teat of Tom Ellard, not Mark Hosler, but that’s neither here nor there.
It has been roughly 30 years since the post-punk era, and the main head of Severed Heads was asked to give a presentation recently on post-punk, and basically what it all meant.
This are the slides and speaker notes from that event. I thought it was worth passing along, since it ties into both our earlier conversations about the evolution and end of music, as well as some of the material on the more recent All Art Radio episodes of Over The Edge.
I am on a really slow connection here, but I fully intend to check out all the links posted during this discussion. The David Icke thing was more about the ’something beautiful is coming’ stuff, but I think that it actually says more about where my head is at than where yours may be, actual girl.
People=Shit, as many many have suggested over time (Slipknot is the one in my head, though they surely can’t have been the first) and I am pretty disgusted by your treatment described above. Not much you can say to defend such ‘art’. I can’t work out whether or not you are in any way a Negativland fan, or if you just float around cyberspace looking for a message board to ’spread the word’ on. Not that it really matters, I suppose.
Keep chucking those cocktails, and we might pick some up and lob them back, or we may just try to sample them and use them for our own art….
It will be a great day for America, incidentally, when we begin to eat bread again, instead of the blasphemous and tasteless foam rubber that we have substituted for it. And I am not being frivolous here, either. Something very sinister happens to the people of a country when they begin to distrust their own reactions as deeply as they do here, and become as joyless as they have become.
James Baldwin, The Fire Next Time (1963)
Re Disney princess films. My daughter also watches, and indeed enjoys those films, and has a thing about the colour pink. I try to offset this with more masculine type toys such as Dr Who figures etc, as I figure there is something not quite right about a girl wanting to be so ‘girly’.
But hey, she laughed so hard at Gimme The Mermaid, and had no problem with what was being done with Ariel on there, so it may all be OK. Perhaps my teachings of having her own mind and not blindly following the herd have sunk in all too well. She HATES High School Musical which puts her in the minority as far as her peers go.
I did used to worry about Disney’s influence on kids, but as long as parents teach other stuff then I reckon some mindless fairy tales can’t hurt all that much.
i think that was a metaphorical reference to bread, and james baldwin was living in france for a while before he came back to america to critique the shit out of it. james baldwin was raised in dire poverty, so he knew of those kinds of things. liquor store dinners…
disney. its not evil, but media does code things into our brains. i didn’t have much interest in tv as a kid (it looked to fake to me) so i am very liberal about it with her, as i didn’t seem to think it would have much effect. but the story about a prince saving her, well, we have had to have long chats about that so she knows its going to be up to her to save her. and yes, there are many other ways to discuss and correct impressions on kids. but i have noticed that as people get older they are less likely to be open to feedback and thus the idea of ‘change’ just strikes them as impossible. so feeding more white bread down their gullets just makes them fatter.
disney and bread are not evil, ignorance kills.
I strongly encourage everyone to watch the price of pleasure. its truly undermining the long held standard of liberal thought that women like being in porn and that its undoing our puritanical sex issues. having been raised in the opposite of a puritanical environment, and knowing what this looks like from “behind” so to speak, it really does make the point that the porn industry and the inherent hetero sexism is vile. vile beyond words as you get further in.
and if you watch it and disagree with me, stay at least 100 feet from me at all times and never make eye contact and if you look at my child i might pray that a bird plucks your eyeballs out.
i have a funny story about gimme the mermaid. but its too personal to share.
One must say Yes to life, and embrace it wherever it is found - and it is found in terrible places… For nothing is fixed, forever and forever, it is not fixed; the earth is always shifting, the light is always changing, the sea does not cease to grind down rock. Generations do not cease to be born, and we are responsible to them because we are the only witnesses they have. The sea rises, the light fails, lovers cling to each other, and children cling to us. The moment we cease to hold each other, the moment we break faith with one another, the sea engulfs us and the light goes out.
James Baldwin (1924 - 1987)
Source: Fumbling Toward Divinity: The Adoption Scriptures
thanks vc, i have used that site extensively for research, much of it credible. i limit my exposure to lately, because it reduces my buddhist intentions to nothing and makes me want to see the herd drastically thinned.
Ah yes, feeling the herd needs to be thinned (perhaps including myself) is part of the way I’m dehumanized. I can relate.
And you’re right, that story of getting photographed sleeping nude and it being used as porn first and then art without permission does make me want to throw up in my mouth a little. Not nearly as bad, but once a group of teenagers in a car stopped and photographed me walking home from school and then drove off. Just par for the course–myself being such an obvious freak–I thought at the time.
I blame Reagan and Thatcher. We are living with all the problems inherent in their way of running the world. Think of yourself, be selfish, make money, buy things, fuck everyone else. Get rich or buy trying.
I’m not old enough to remember life pre-Thatcher. This is the only world I’ve known, but I can’t and won’t accept it as the only world there CAN EVER BE.
At the risk of kicking up yet another needless shitstorm, I thought this blog posting by Roger Ebert was worth passing along.
It seems the web is still a pretty tricky beast when it comes to trying to make a dime. I wish him luck with Club Ebert (I wonder how a Club Negativland would go over. Perhaps if it were tied to OTE downloads?).
Re 388: Does finance capitalism make us all whores and pimps to various degrees? I wonder how much money Ebert makes, how much less it is than he wants, and if it’s less than he actually needs to live.
I think you also have to add into that equation what his medical bills have been over the last handful of years, and what his medical costs are likely to be in the future.
And keep in mind, what he’s doing is entirely voluntary. He’s also entirely entitled to do with his written works whatever he wants. I don’t personally intend to join The Ebert Club, but I respect his right to make a living doing what he does (and it isn’t like the guy can make a living going on TV anymore, and print media isn’t especially healthy these days either). At the same time, it’s like he says himself, some of the best writing on the web is done for free.
I don’t know that I have a definitive answer for any of this myself. A lot people are overpaid for what they do, and a whole lot more people are underpaid for their labor. Believe me, I’m a union guy, so I know the score on that level. When it comes to art, whether it’s writing or painting or music, I don’t know for sure what the answers are there. Give people the choice, and they will support artists they like, even if they can get the material for free. Again, what the numbers break down to on that, I don’t have any real insight.
I found it a little too obvious that all the major networks, (and a few of the minor ones) were quick to let all of us know what TWITTER was…… WHY was it so impressive to ‘them’? Did ‘they’ all own of piece of TWITTER? Did ‘they’ have to announce it as if you would be foolish NOT to get in on the ground floor of this new, exciting internet ‘thing-y’?
‘Their’ stories on it let a weird taste in my mouth. Thus, I only talk to people on this, The Resident little TV site, RI, No Homers, and Steve Hoffman forum!
From the link i posted… I knew Bob Flanagan and his partner, and he was a truly compassionate human being- really funny too! He said one time he did this wierdo show hanging on hooks and a troop of BOY SCOUTS walked into the gallery. He spoke to them, answering questions and really connected with them. He had that quality. I did think however long was he going to be able to nail his balls to boards before running out of balls to nail…
i think really compassionate people exist and sometimes do dumb things. there is a motto where i work based on a 100+ years of miserable trial and error: create responsibly.
someday i am going to perform in a giant vagina helmet.
hint hint to the negativland re: its not too late to do something powerfully positiv with the *human* currency you have earned and are now afforded by the dearth of empathy on shared weird floating gassy rock in sky. do we need more advocacy for unregulated media? as it stands we have enough non-existent regulation and super great jobs for poor chicks in brazil (see last RI post). do we need more examples of how badass we all are at being desensitized to suffering? i think puppy killing is enough proof.
i think what we need are creative outlaws in pursuit of hippie jebus ideas like capital L love and absent G god.
that would be the point. taking the idea of an exaggeratedly fetishized body part and enlarging it to a degree of absurdity and making it as normal as a face.
to my mind, as the owner of a vagina, all the weird ways men like to photo them are just ‘tarded. and i mean that will all my heart.
perhaps that is from having taught naked people drawing classes and having seen lots of naked bodies. after a while, the elbow looks weirder than the dongle, etc etc.
can we just be people? why do women so frequently have to be reduced to the few parts? when you have a healthy sexuality, to my mind those parts are part of the whole, not the only thing on a woman’s body worthy of fixating on. this goes for the fetishization males do of their own organs too.
something very puerile and underdeveloped about all that to my mind. ok, buy buy now.
girl says: under the spreading chestnut tree, you stole all the power please stop selling me.
grill says: i dont trust our culture to not reduce us (the lower sex, the weaker vessel) to nothing. please stop participating in the sex inustrial complex that engenders empathy death and war.
gill says: i either mock the suggestion that we are infantilized to the point of not being trustworth to think for ourselves, or agree that we are all oblivious to justice and should give up and shop.
all make me feel very happy that there is inclusion of the other gender on a board belonging to such a long standing boys club.
i almost got fired last week for a suggestion at work that a boys club stop being such a boys club and let some non-penis holders in.
even though it was a true and verifiable statement, and there was data, eyewitness accounts to validate my statement, i was once again called insubordinate for the suggestion that men hold power and don’t like to be challenged on that small simple obvious concept.
luckily, there was one in the club that called all the others big fucking babies and blocked my dismissal.
thats how small this club is, you cant even point out that the boys fort has a no girls allowed sign on it.
every boys fort i ever snuck into as a girl smelled like pee and had crusty porn everywhere. i didnt want to be in it anyway.
but if you need to feed yourself and a girl child, you end up with no other choice but.
do we really have to die or be reduced to nothing for not having a white penis attached where the vagina or black penis might be?
very simple question. capitalism says yes, you should die. you should not be aborted, we shall decide who lives to be cannon fordder to kill more dark people. dark people shall kill other dark people, women shall be raped, childred raped and thrown into dumpsters for an orgasm or maybe two.
and, yeah, i don’t trust white men to do the right thing. they so rarely prove that that is of interest to them. it seems much more about having nice cabinet work in the kitchen and pussy you can pitch a tent on in the bedroom than in anything close to parity.
just think on it, perhaps you can start the dominos falling. or not. either way, collapse of capitalism provides no safety net for anyone, male or female. at that point you are as debased as those debased by the system. better to become aware of this point now than face it once you have been stripped of your stock options, pensions and inheritances.
Well, if you don’t trust us there’s not really anything we can say, is there? Impostors notwithstanding, you’ve been encouraged several times to keep posting, and yet you write as if no dominoes have fallen. If our comments meant nothing to you, then the sea has apparently already engulfed us, including you, and the light has already gone out.
Off-Topic Alert.
Please forgive me and read re why I believe posting this info and request here are apropos. thx.
CHEVRON-TEXACO wants to bulldoze & build houses on the last wild area in N. Orange County/S. Los Angeles County region. CHEVRON-TEXACO has to get the land (which they own) rezoned by the city council of Fullerton (Calif) for it to happen.
The vote on this matter is March 10, 2010 at Fullerton (California) City Council meeting. The vast majority of residents (not just of Fullerton, but of all O.C. and Calif) don’t understand the ramifications of what is sliding past them, and what they’ll irreversibly lose. This of course favors CHEVRON-TEXACO’s plans. Obviously, most Negativlanders are extremely sophisticated regarding publicity/digital/viral media/multi-nationals, etc.- while I am not.
Can any of you who read this (see http://angeles.sierraclub.org/ocosc/coyote_hills.htm) create enough publicity to stop CHEVRON-TEXACO from bulldozing West Coyote Hills and have it designated a protected wild area (not a grassy park)?
The vote takes place in Fullerton (March 10th), but its outcome affects many ecosystems in Orange County, Los Angeles, and beyond. The West Coyote Hills territory is an important flyway for many birds and is a connecting habitat for other animals, some endangered.
Anybody out there know how to contact Ken Burns?!?!? It would be ideal to have him show up and make a presentation at the Fullerton City Council meeting– and maybe have Joni Mitchell there (via Skype?) singing “Paradise” and Woody Guthrie singing “This Land is Your Land (I mean THIS! THIS SPECIFIC LAND! RIGHT HERE!” :-)), etc. etc. A mobile mixologist showing up in the Fullerton City Hall meeting blasting out a digital mix would be great also, but I don’t think the people on the city council would quite get it.
Apologies again for posting off-topic here, but I assume that your politics are probably anti-Chevron and that there is a high probability that many who read this here are interested in this type of issue - and are sophisticated enough (digitally, politically, etc.) to make something happen to protect the West Coyote Hills from CHEVRON-TEXACO’s bulldozers. Thanks for any help.
P.S. Sites on web are already stating things like “The air has gone out of the movement to save Coyote Hills.” I am hoping a surprise avalanche of timely publicity will create a last minute resounding victory over CHEVRON-TEXACO.
Off Topic Alert. Please forgive me and read why posting this info/request here is apropos. Thanks in advance.
CHEVRON-TEXACO wants to bulldoze the last wild area in the N. Orange County-Los Angeles County region. CHEVRON-TEXACO has to get the land re-zoned by the Fullerton, California city council if the bulldozing/ housing development is to take place.
The vote on this matter is Thursday, March 18, 2010 at 6:00 p.m. (an hour early?) at the Fullerton city council meeting. There is also a presentation by Chevron and the city at the Wednesday, March 10th city council meeting at 7:00 p.m. Note that the meeting where they take the vote starts at 6:00 p.m. and the other, where Chevron gives their presentation, starts at 7:00 p.m. Please be sure to show up at 6:00 p.m. on March 18th – it may be that they are counting on supporters showing up at 7 p.m. –after the vote is already over! Please keep alert regarding possible tricky rescheduling of meeting times. so you don’t show up after the vote is over.
The vast majority of residents, not just of Fullerton, but of O.C. and of all California, don’t understand the ramifications of what CHEVRON-TEXACO is attempting to slide past them, through Fullerton city council, and what the people of California could irreversibly lose. This ignorance favors CHEVRON-TEXACO’s plans.
Obviously, most Negativlanders are extremely sophisticated re viral-digital publicity and the activities of multi-national corps, etc.- while I am not.
Can any of you help create an avalanche of timely publicity to stop CHEVRON-TEXACO’s bulldozing and irreversibly destroying the Coyote Hills ancient wild land? (see http://angeles.sierraclub.org/ocosc/coyote_hills.htmhelp)
While the territory in question is located in Fullerton, it affects ecosystems throughout all of Orange County, Los Angeles, and beyond. It is an important flyway and habitat corridor for many animals, plants, and birds -some of which are rare and/or endangered species.
Do any of you know how to contact Ken Burns?!?!? It would be ideal to have him make a presentation at the Fullerton City Council meeting, preferably with advance publicity.
Anyone who can do so is urged to attend the two meetings:
Wednesday, March 10th at 7:00 p.m.
and especially the meeting
Thursday, March 18th at 6:00 p.m. when the actual vote takes place.
Apologies again for posting off-topic. I assume, correctly I hope, that most of you at this site want to be informed about issues like this - and want to help use your digital media skills to protect wild areas such as the West Coyote Hills from the likes of CHEVRON-TEXACO.
sorry for double posting - my lack of web skills, again. thanks for your encouragement Christian @ post #426. wow–so fast! the web is truly amazing - L.L.
Yeah boy shake that ass, oops I mean girl, GIRL GIRL GIRL…..
How interesting has this little corner of the internet gotten all of a sudden?
PS - While my skin may be what is described in the mainstream as “WHITE”, I would say the weird looking organ that dangles between my legs - and is one of the 2 most important things belonging to the human race due to it’s necessity in providing more of us humans - happens to look pretty damn black… Certainly not white. Not sure where that leaves me.
Plus it’s actually RICH White Cocks in the main, which discounts myself in that particular club. My porn was always just lying about in the woods (who left it there and WHY???). Of course the den smelled like piss, the wood was stolen from the pissy alleyways…
I’m sorry to post about my dick on here, but I wasn’t the one to bring it up.
When you do your massive pussy helmet, girl, please send pictures so I don’t have to visualise. It’s hurting my tiny mind.
“they throw insults like girls. they are total fags.”
I hope that was intentional. I had a good chuckle about that one.
If we don’t need humans anymore, then could you enlighten us to the point of getting all that worked up about whether 50% of a species that is unnecessary is worth getting all that concerned about? I have often considered that this planet would have got on better without us, but WE ARE HERE. If you accept that WE ARE HERE then you must accept the need for sexual organs and reproduction of our species. If you want the human race to extinct themselves, don’t expect ME to get all that worked up about the plight of your fellow sisters.
I know the old saying goes, “The more I learn, the less I know.”
but, now, I’m afraid, I’m feeling that the more I learn, the less I want to involve myself with the human race!
re: the CHEVRON-TEXACO deal:
I dare someone to make a deal:
They can totally take over the hills IF:
1) they cover the entire debt of California
AND
2) Give every state resident $150,000.00 so, if they choose, they can MOVE OUT!
They’ve got deep pockets. Chump change to those bastards.
i don’t think we should extinct ourselves, i just think we should calm the fuck down about hyper-extention of sexuality via an industrial complex that feeds empathy death and war. yes those comments were intentionally sarcastic! those are probably global insults “you are not man enough” being the worst case scenario in business. not man enough to kill, maim, rape, dehumanize your brother.
my daughter went through a phase of development that i think freud called polymorphously perverse. you know, you figure out you got pleasure buttons and push them with frequency and regularity. and then we hit puberty and the eggs want to be fertilized and the sperm wants to squirt. its all normal, natural, fascinating, mysterious, beautiful, wonderful.
the problem with our culture is that grown people refuse to outgrow stages that belong to certain phases of our evolution as individuals. meaning, the us (and many other cultures) is myopically adolescent in its desire to maintain the genitalia fascination long past the point of its function.
i am all for sex, its a great, great thing. but i read studies that say that most of the use of viagra (which is valued higher than gold presently per ounce in terms of cost) is used by single men. so what does that tell us - probably that a bunch of jackoffs are at their computers or wide screen tvs whacking it for 4-5 hours straight (which to me is just asking for some serious chafing and rashing) to fake sex. and upping the ante by requesting that the industry equate sex with violence… and if you look at the robert jensen and other related studies, this means that many jackoffs are thinking that women LIKE to be choked and bitten.
consensual adult activity is an incredible pastime. it should be something sacred, however, because otherwise what we have is akin to how this looks now: porn is used to prepare soldiers for battle. those are the studies that chill me to the bone. they actually promote it in segments where the grunt infantry has to go out and shoot some brown people.
and mainstream porn is not only violence=sex, it is also very, very, VERY racist.
so, while i fully support our responsible use of our organs, i also completely condone the state of perpetual adolescence the US (and maybe most of the planet for that matter) is stuck in.
case in point:
i wonder how many orgasms worth the perp got from this body before he killed and dumped it.
Wouldn’t it be nice if we were older
Then we wouldn’t have to wait so long
And wouldn’t it be nice to live together
In the kind of world where we belong
You know its gonna make it that much better
When we can say goodnight and stay together
Wouldn’t it be nice if I could wake up next to your dead body
In the morning when the day is new
And after having spent the day together
Choking you to death the whole night through
The happy times together we’ve been spending
I wish that every kiss was never ending
Oh Wouldn’t it be nice
The thing I find stupidest about the Coyote Hills boondoggle is the idea that Orange County needs 760 “units” while homes are being foreclosed all over the country. The problem is not a lack of high priced housing. Of course Chevron-Texaco and Pacific Coast Homes have a different problem, which can be solved by taking taxpayer money.
Maybe some rich executives need fourth or fifth homes, but that’s no reason to destroy so much native coastal sage ecosystem. One can only hope coyotes will eat the executives’ offspring.
re 434: That sounds like something Suicide Man might say. If you are happy to exist YOURSELF, then you must concede that you have no right to stop others existing also.
I really don’t care, I just like stirring up the pot a bit to be perfectly honest.
one of my perps was a woman who had been perped. i feel sometimes luckiest in that I am not even slightly inclined to think about it. i am only inclined to see it gone from earth, as i think it does not befit evolution to continue to use once and destroy.
anything, for that matter, including wretched orange county
While most cases of reported sexual abuse are perpetrated by men (although women are catching up: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/sharp-rise-reported-in-child-abuse-by-women-1817509.html), most reported cases of neglect are by women. The thing is, men who abandon their families aren’t counted, so the percentages are probably very, very skewed. Both sexes are apparently just as likely to commit physical abuse and emotional abuse.
My opinion is that the family is where all oppression begins, so women are just as guilty as men. One can certainly argue, of course, that the rich fuckers who run the world cause parents to abuse their children by separating fathers (and, increasingly, mothers) and isolating them in abusive workplaces, but I’d counter that the rich fuckers who rule the world do what they do because their parents didn’t love them. The argument has be made, however, that they’re just psychopaths/sociopaths: http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/beware-the-psychopath-my-son/
except that you should research the history of korean comfort women, and how that impacted the japanese army, and how the chinese were not accustomed to having to fuck the japanese soldiers to keep them from slaughtering all of them including their fetuses.
The first “comfort houses” were established approximately 1932-MAR during the battle of Shanghai. Following the second Sino-Japanese war of 1937, these houses were installed generally in occupied lands. Approximately 80 to 90% of the “comfort women” came from Korea which was occupied by the Japanese military at the time. Many of the rest were Chinese. 3 Some other Asian and Dutch women from countries that Japan had invaded were also enslaved . There were rumors about this form of slavery after the war. It was not until 1991 that a South Korean woman, Grandma Kim Hak Soon, became the first person to speak publicly about the existence of comfort women. It has since became public knowledge as other victim survivors have come forward and as groups have been founded to demand justice for these women.
One source suggests that the Japanese government organized the comfort stations for a number of reasons:
To increase the morale of the troops.
To prevent their soldiers from raping women in the territories that they controlled.
To more efficiently prevent the spread of STDs.
To prevent leakage of military secrets.
Can you imagine a bunch of nationalist goons showing up in your town and insisting you blow them all day everyday for a few weeks while they killed all your relatives? And when you resisted, they shoved machetes up your rear? Cuz thats what happened to those folks and your callous words are giving you away.
You like asian pussy yeah? China will soon own the US. Lets hope they don’t have a fondness for white boy ass.
this bored has some perps, which means I won’t be posting anymore. its been fun and to those of you who have been compassionate, i thank you. to those who suffer to support and justify the ongoing near global oppression of women, i suggest you reflect on this:
growing intolerance, narcissism, hedonism and the consumerism, which characterize Western civilization. Mix in the wide field of alternatives wrought by modern technologies. And the end result is the demise of long-term commitment and relationships. This is the sound bite age, the era of virtual sex, the shortest-term attention span ever. Individualism has gone cancerous and was replaced by Malignant Self Love. The result?
Anybody out there have any practical ideas to inform people and get media coverage about the Chevron-Texaco v Coyote Hills thing? Strippers at the city council meeting? A sing-in at city hall featuring “This Land is Your Land,” “Ticky-Tacky,” “Big Yellow Taxi,” and the Beverly Hillbillies t.v.show theme song - with lyric rewrites . . . ??? Help. ! !!! thx
“Men who engaged in domestic violence consistently overestimated how common such behavior is, and the more they overestimated it the more they engaged in abusing their partner in the previous 90 days, according to new research conducted at the University of Washington.”
‘Bruce makes a very difficult martyr — he was too irascible, too self-destructive, too perverse, too unclassifiable. But he is a martyr nonetheless — a heartbreakingly vulnerable renegade who was broken by the final tail-lash of the dying dragon of American Puritanism.
Has that dragon really died? It’s true that no comedian or author or singer will probably ever again be led away in handcuffs for using what some beat cop decides are offensive words — certainly not for saying that Eleanor Roosevelt “had the nicest tits of any lady in office” or doing a shtick about a wife who returns home to find her husband screwing a chicken. But the outdated obscenity laws and murky Supreme Court rulings used to arrest and convict Bruce remain, a testament to our nation’s complete inability to deal with the issue of obscenity. (Indeed, as Ronald Collins and David Skover point out in their excellent book, “The Trials of Lenny Bruce,” his final New York conviction has never been formally overturned: In the eyes of the law, disgracefully, Lenny Bruce remains a criminal.)
Most tellingly, the highest powers in the land are still eminently capable of using those laws to crack down on material they deem immoral — even if millions of Americans spend billions of dollars a year consuming that material. The issue today is not dirty words or offensive comedic routines, but pornography — America’s favorite not-so-secret vice and the bête noire of cultural conservatives and religious fundamentalists. (At least the official bête noire: According to many in a position to know, the most Bible-thumping types tend to be the most avid watchers of porn.) Pornography may not be as inspiring a subject to defend as a Lenny Bruce spritz, but free speech is free speech. It’s also hard to avoid the feeling that Attorney General John Ashcroft and his ilk, who are constantly calling for a return to the good old days of clear moral guidelines and harsh sanctions, would have been among Bruce’s most zealous persecutors.’
The word derives from the Greek πορνογραφία (pornographia), which derives from the Greek words πόρνη (pornē, “prostitute” and pornea, “prostitution”), and γράφω (graphō, “I write or record,” derived meaning “illustration,” cf. “graph”), and the suffix -ία (-ia, meaning “state of,” “property of,” or “place of”), thus meaning “a written description or illustration of prostitutes or prostitution.”
for that matter, lenny bruce was so strung out, who’s to say he wasn’t a whore for his fix?
The most common destinations for victims of human trafficking are Thailand, Japan, Israel, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Turkey and the US, according to a report by the UNODC (UN Office on Drugs and Crime).
The major sources of trafficked persons include Thailand, China, Nigeria, Albania, Bulgaria, Belarus, Moldova and Ukraine.
Use of children
Regarding the prostitution of children the laws on prostitution as well as those on sex with a child apply. If prostitution in general is legal there is usually a minimum age requirement for legal prostitution that is higher than the general age of consent. Although some countries do not single out patronage of child prostitution as a separate crime, the same act is punishable as sex with an underage person.
In India, the federal police say that around 1.2 million children are believed to be involved in prostitution. A CBI statement said that studies and surveys sponsored by the ministry of women and child development estimated that about 40% of all India’s prostitutes are children.
Thailand’s Health System Research Institute reported that children in prostitution make up 40% of prostitutes in Thailand
Some adults travel to other countries to have access to sex with children, which is unavailable in their home country. Cambodia has become a notorious destination for sex with children.
Thailand is also a destination for child sex tourism. Several western countries have recently enacted laws with extraterritorial reach, punishing citizens who engage in sex with minors in other countries. As the crime usually goes undiscovered, these laws are rarely enforced.
In illegal immigration
A difficulty facing migrant prostitutes in many developed countries is the illegal residence status of some of these women. They face potential deportation, and so do not have recourse to the law. Hence there are brothels that may not adhere to the usual legal standards intended to safeguard public health and the safety of the workers.
Relation to drugs
Some drug users, most commonly heroin or crack cocaine users, obtain their drugs primarily through prostitution. Some receive money for the sex, which is then used to pay for drugs. Others, sometimes called strawberries[36], receive the drug directly in trade for sex. These drug-addicted prostitutes most commonly take part in street prostitution, as they typically lack the resources to work independently from a private residence or be escort prostitutes, and many brothels do not want to employ visible drug users.
Street drug dealing and prostitution are often closely related, with many street-level drug dealers also acting as pimps and vice versa.
In affluent countries such as the United States and Western Europe the correlation between street prostitution and illegal drug use is high. In contrast, many prostitutes in the developing world are primarily motivated by the need for subsistence earnings for themselves or dependents. However, drugs and prostitution are increasingly becoming connected in urban areas in the developing world, for example in urban areas in Karachi and Thailand.
Not all prostitutes who use recreational drugs are driven to prostitution by their habit, but the two subcultures are still closely linked.
Violence against prostitutes
Female prostitutes are at risk of violent crime, as well as possibly at higher risk of occupational mortality than any other group of women ever studied.
For example, the homicide rate for female prostitutes was estimated to be 204 per 100,000 (Potterat et al., 2004), which is considerably higher than that for the next riskiest occupations in the United States during a similar period (4 per 100,000 for female liquor store workers and 29 per 100,000 for male taxicab drivers) (Castillo et al., 1994). However, there are substantial differences in rates of victimization between street prostitutes and indoor prostitutes who work as escorts, call girls, or in brothels and massage parlors (Weitzer 2000, 2005). While women who work on the streets are the most likely to be victimized, attacks and even murders of prostitutes have also occurred in legal and licensed brothels (such as in the German brothel Pascha).
Establishments engaged in sexual slavery are the highest priority targets of law enforcement actions against prostitution. It has been suggested that human trafficking is the fastest growing form of contemporary slavery and is the third largest and fastest growing criminal industry in the world.
“Annually, according to U.S. Government-sponsored research completed in 2006, approximately 800,000 people are trafficked across national borders, which does not include millions trafficked within their own countries. Approximately 80 percent of transnational victims are women and girls and up to 50 percent are minors,” reports the US Department of State in a 2008 study.Due to the illegal and underground nature of sex trafficking, the exact extent of women and children forced into prostitution is unknown.
Children are sold into the global sex trade every year. Often they are kidnapped or orphaned, and sometimes they are sold by their own families. According to the International Labour Organization, the problem is especially alarming in Thailand, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Vietnam, Cambodia, Nepal and India.
Poverty, social exclusion and war are at the heart of human trafficking. Some women are hoodwinked into believing promises of a better life, sometimes by people who are known and trusted to them. Traffickers may own legitimate travel agencies, modeling agencies and employment offices in order to gain women’s trust. Others are simply kidnapped. Once overseas it is common for their passport to be confiscated by the trafficker and to be warned of the consequences should they attempt to escape, including beatings, rape, threats of violence against their family and death threats. It is common, particularly in Eastern Europe, that should they manage to return to their families they will only be trafficked once again.
Globally, forced labour generates $31bn, half of it in the industrialised world, a tenth in transition countries, the International Labour Organization says in a report on forced labour (”A global alliance against forced labour”, ILO, 11 May 2005). Trafficking in people has been facilitated by porous borders and advanced communication technologies, it has become increasingly transnational in scope and highly lucrative within its barbarity.
“With sexual assault the more a man thought it was prevalent the more likely he was to engage in such behavior. If we can correct misperceptions about the prevalence of intimate partner violence, we have a chance to change men’s behavior. If you give them factual information it is harder for them to justify their behavior,” Neighbors said
Walker added: “It is unclear if we can change perpetrators’ behavior by correcting their misperceptions about intimate partner violence. However, work in alcohol use suggests that changing misperceptions about drinking changes drinking behavior among college students. Consistent with social norms theory, people are motivated to be ‘average’ in many ways, particularly if the behavior in question could be considered risky or taboo.”
“It is quite natural for children to awaken sexual desire in the adult, because they tend to be beautiful, cuddly, affectionate, and because they admire the adult so much, probably more than anyone else does.” - Alice Miller (http://www.iraresoul.com/alicemiller.html)
Most House Republicans Vote to Let Schoolchildren Be Held Down, Tied Up, and Put in Solitary Confinement
MARCH 5, 2010
by James Ridgeway and Jean Casella
On Wednesday afternoon, the United States House of Representatives passed H.R. 4247, the Preventing Harmful Restraint and Seclusion in Schools Act (now being called the Keeping All Students Safe Act), by a vote of 262-153. In the final vote count, 238 Democrats and just 24 Republicans voted for the bill, while 8 Democrats and 145 Republicans voted against it. (Check out the full roll call here.)
Re 489: I know this won’t be popular here, considering Negativland’s stance against guns, but women should arm themselves. And if a man tries to rape them, shoot him in the crotch.
Re 488: And this won’t be popular just about anywhere… Children should arm themselves.
i think its much more socially acceptable with males for women to leap from cliffs after allowing the assaulter to argue that his long standing love affair with internet porn drove his inability to think for himself any longer. and that it was in fact a first amendment right under the monkey see monkey do clause.
however, i agree with you that arming children seems like the best solution to our long standing population issues and also the final solution to the ultimate existential question of what to do about people in a general sense.
I trust the US government to always do the right thing by the citizens of the world and that we citizens should never question any legistlation or any kind of industry deregulation.
and i believe fully in my church, for wherelese would i get my access to the porn that drives my monkey see lust for 5 year old boy ass rape. i only wish i could have been born in italy and become a priest, where my porn coveted boy ass is purveyed on a bed of lettuce with a sip of the blood of the christ in the vatican city.
I don’t think women with guns would have to give as much of a fuck (pun intended) what males find socially acceptable.
Imagine if all women were capable of deadly force. The problematic portion of the male population would either have to control themselves or they wouldn’t be around long enough to cause so much trouble.
damn woman on the scrotus didn’t agree that my right to barely legal teen porn was my godgiven right, goddammit. thank god for clarence thomas or i wouldnt be getting my spurt on right NOW! ugh un oh. this ones getting a little old looking, must be almost 17.
any of you know how am i going to get the damn motivation to rape and dismember a teen if i can’t get my damn barely legal!?!
huh? one of you kids pass the viagra, my hardons starting to fade….god damn census workers better not come out here looking for teens.,,,
The United States is pushing its hegemony under the pretence of “Internet freedom.” The United States monopolizes the strategic resources of the global Internet, and has been retaining a tight grip over the Internet ever since its first appearance. There are currently 13 root servers of Internet worldwide, and the United States is the place where the only main root server and nine out of the rest 12 root servers are located. All the root servers are managed by the ICANN (Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers), which is, by the authority of the U.S. government, responsible for the management of the global root server system, the domain name system and the Internet Protocol address. The United States has declined all the requests from other countries as well as international organizations including the United Nations to break the U.S. monopoly over the root servers and to decentralize its management power over the Internet. The United States has been intervening in other countries’ domestic affairs in various ways taking advantage of its control over Internet resources. The United States has a special troop of hackers, which is made up of hacker proficients recruited from all over the world. When post-election unrest broke out in Iran in the summer of 2009, the defeated reformist camp and its advocators used Internet tools such as Twitter to spread their messages. The U.S. State Department asked the operator of Twitter to delay its scheduled maintenance to assist with the opposition in creating a favorable momentum of public opinion. In May 2009, one web company, prompted by the U.S. authorities, blocked its Messenger instant messaging service in five countries including Cuba.
so, this leads one to consider the idea that not only does that one root server have the ability to parse through any/all of our communications on the interwebs, it knows what kind of porn you like, what kind of porn and entertainment you steal, and where and how you steal it. and for the most part unless you server some purpose, does not give a fuck except to use the data to perhaps deliver some more of the empathy killing information in larger and more potent doses. and then one can consider the possibility that this is to train us in pavlovian ways to see and think most helpfully as outlined by the war machine that runs ALL of our government. thinking we are up to some stealth outlaw or even mature adult behavior is naive. what we are up to is being puerile, forgetting how to have an imagination for the things that once belonged solely to us (nature, sex) and being monitored by the big eye and trained by the big police entertainment complex for the ‘better things’ of capitalism.
negativland has it almost 90% right except for the issue of pornography and a “free and unregulated” internet. on that one they are dummies outmanned and outgunned by the penis patrol. “hands on your dicks - ok - aim - SHOOT!”
under the spreading chestnut tree
you orgiastically invited your own lobotomy
Re 495: Surely in the land of the free there is no problem for women to get a hold of a gun? I really don’t see how it would help much. As for arming children, well if matches are dangerous then guns most certainly are.
As a species are we really so bad? Don’t most animals do pretty much all that we do? By that I mean rape/murder/incest etc….
To clarify, I don’t rape/murder or commit incest, but all I mean is that animals are as bad as us? Or should we destroy this randomly created wonderland because ocassionally the randomness is disturbing? Isn’t there plenty of beauty to outweigh the shit?
Go out and look at some flowers or watch a sunrise/sunset, gaze up at the stars etc… Who gives a shit about all this really??? We will be here for the blink of an eye and then it’s bye bye bye. Do we really want to spend our days of randomness moaning about a few problems we may have??
Some people just are happy to feed their children.
All this porn talk! The solution is more art. How about a little art talk once in a while? That’s what Negland makes, not porn.
Yes, porn is art, but it’s not the only kind.
I almost thought that =girl= was the woman on the phone, who joined in on the last OTE, when she mentioned the tough personal time she had, living with ‘artists’!
nah, that wasn’t me, i have a kid and have to go to sleep at a decent hour. i actually continue to make provocative art and play music. you guys would crack up if you knew who i was. it seems like im a troll, and yeah, you would assume im anti-sex, but the point wasn’t to be a man hater, it was to push buttons and cause thought.
i have a newer younger lover in his 20s who grew up on internet porn who does not think for a second that it is the same thing as sex. in fact, he says “it does all the work for you” and “fucks with your head” and “makes you lose your ability to have an erection for sex with real girls”…. which was actually my point the whole time.
if you had ever been in porn, you wouldn’t think it art. if you had ever been raped or had a daughter, you wouldn’t think it a good idea to use it as a sexual aid.
sex and nudity are artists fodder, pornography and degradation and the industry behind it are crass, commercial and they negate human interactions.
troll that!
nudity can be art, nakedness can be art, but porn ain’t art.
also, i like montage work, have taught video/audio extensively, and do appreciate the genre to the point where its a subject i follow. i also have produced a number of video, some with nudity, and am not even slightly put off by the idea of remix culture. in fact, i grew up on hip hop and punk rock, and know that the history of the lawsuiting predates negativland. PE were actually friends of mine back in the day. Africa Bambatta started it, and before him there were others, it was not a white guy thing in the early days. It was more of a rap thing.
I live in a place where you can get a moog and a laptop and some mashup software and start an art noise band and get a record contract and go forth and conquer the scene in about a week. Its no big deal to me to see people “stealing” from eachother, because teaching art, well, all you do is show other peoples art to teach people art. and sometimes you have them do art.
but the”inside joke” about porn actually is hurtful to women. it may be the case that women are jumping on board and getting into it to please guys, but most of them are middle or upper middle class who have not nor will ever have to consider it as a means to pay rent and buy food. the industry there (and not the classywanky playboy stuff- you might as well admit you have a crush on ashley simpson at that point)… and negativland on that issue reminds me totally of cheesy hiphop or bad metal.
come on negativland, you know you want girls to like you! girls like boys who are nice to girls. thats really the way it works.
if you act like women are sputum fodder, women will think you are creepy!
or maybe you guys are the kind of nerds who like hurting women who come from poverty and rape backgrounds (the kind who usually end up in porn) and enjoy the thought that its a power/control use once and destory thing?
which actually makes girls from poverty/rape backgrounds really sad, bummed, and feel really degraded…
c’mon, think a little! be kind a little! there ain’t nothing wrong with someone speaking out for the little people - the poor and the used and the degraded!
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter — Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
thats all i have to say. the rest is up to you. just know that if you come from that background, its super painful. my cousin ended up suiciding because she got so used up by the industry. it ain’t what it looks like from the other side, those dumbass playboy girls tell about .000000000000006 of the story.
besides, in know way more about it than negativland does from all sides, and i have the naked pictures to prove it!
wake up. this country (the US) is getting steamrolled by the war machine. and you all are too comfortable! you are rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. ship sinking! ship is sinking!
oh, and my new lover is a paid professional artist who teaches life drawing and sells his fine art! even he knows the difference between art and porn! he used to make gay porn! he draws naked chicks and dudes all day and teaches others how to draw them. some of them are attractive (uh oh, boner patrol at work!)
duh! take the pepsi challenge. prove that porn is art!
oh and i am in a band with a woman who does nothing BUT sell her art and only teaches for fun - not for money. She is a prime example of the kind of art work that is comes from a source not only ESSENTIALLY GOOD and AUTHENTICALLY TALENTED, but does not need to rely on shock factor or bad taste or me me me provocation to get attention or gallery representation. Shes just a fucking great artist.
She and I frequently talk about how stupid the narcissistic me art is, how BAD it is, and how much defense that the ones who make it do in defense of it. She also agrees that as someone who has been objectified many times by many men, that porn is a denigrating influence on those that defend it. She chose her husband because he is also ethical, talented, and does not need to defend the lowest common denominator chicanery of our military industrial culture to validate flaccid self-esteem and lack of decent interpersonal skills. You know, the kind that get you LAID by REAL WOMEN.
i think i meant to say no more of a pornographer, but hope you get my point there.
the PORN INDUSTRY is a brutalizing machine. the FILM INDUSTRY is a whole other can of worms, but it isn’t the PORN INDUSTRY, and yes, it is art with sex in it.
… to my mind that’s like saying Halliburton/KBR is a “construction company”
negativland, you should know better, but apparently don’t. I recommend reading a bit more about collapse, specially the recent book by jared diamond. civilizations fail when they forget about social interdependence. you can pretend you are an independent thinking and an island of cult of one, but not one of us is independent at all when faced with a food shortage or a war on our soil. we are generally at that point survivalists, hunger victims, or dead.
in the congo, men are being or were raped too. it is an instrument of war. the porn industry is promoting violence against women for the purposes of dehumanizing the male brain and reducing empathy. wake up now before your own personal ass is bleeding! there is still time. but not much more.
hey, btw - why don’t you wankers read? reading (including erotica) actually makes sex more interesting in real life, as opposed to porn, which gets BORING after a few watches, unless you are a permanent, lifelong grandpahardon wanker.
But the new episode of OTE, eh? I look forward to the stereo version and giving it a proper listen. Anything to do with Industrial always get my attention. I had to smile at the bit with the Queen Street record store, because I’m pretty sure I know the place their talking about. The reference to the blank record sleeves is a bit depressing though, and I remember seeing the same anonymous wall of vinyl at Sunrise Records during the height of the Techno and House music phase. When album art and artist names are no longer necessary, it means that the music has become so generic it no longer needs any other identifier than its genre name.
It’s a shame, because in the beginning Industrial more than just dance music, and indeed, more than music. Throbbing Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire were both strongly associated with collage art, in addition to various kinds of performance art stunts. The idea behind DoubleVision was to release video cassettes as a kind of alternative to simply releasing audio recordings. A lot of these ideas trickled down into the second generation of Industrial artists -but this is territory that we’re already familiar with and well worn history by now.
Sadomasochism has always been the furthest reach of the sexual experience: when sex becomes most purely sexual, that is, severed from personhood, from relationships, from love. It should not be surprising that it has become attached to Nazi symbolism in recent years. Never before was the relation of masters and slaves so consciously aestheticized. Sade had to make up his theater of punishment and delight from scratch, improvising the decor and costumes and blasphemous rites. Now there is a master scenario available to everyone. The color is black, the material is leather, the seduction is beauty, the justification is honesty, the aim is ecstasy, the fantasy is death.
(Susan Sontag (b. 1933), U.S. essayist. “Fascinating Fascism,” Under the Sign of Saturn (1974, repr. 1980).)
You are right, the patriarchal hegemony we are embedded in here in the United States (and a lot of the world, for that matter) is unfair to women, and objectifying and dehumanizing anyone for the purposes of selfish gratification is unethical.
For any way that we may have offended you as individuals or as a collective, sincere apologies.
Girl, if you want a debate you’ll have to go at our (snails) pace. This used to be a quiet backwater type of message board, so bombarding us with screeds of questions, text and links naturally frightens us a little bit.
Ask a question and a day or so later your reply may come, that’s the way it used to work on here. Negativland rarely post here, you should feel fairly privileged to have received a timely answer to your queries.
VC - haven’t listened to the new OTE, was kinda waiting for the full stereo experience rather than the really low quality version from KPFA. I used to listen to them from KPFA only to then have to listen all over again to hear it properly, so now I tend to just wait.
my life used to be a quiet backwater until i got sucked into a semi-predatory experience i wasn’t emotionally prepared for. i feel used and duped. it all ties into muchness with this website, and other things.
someday it will be in my memoirs.
btw - negativland didn’t respond, i was just jamming their board to scare bullies like gf into thinking god was giving the 11th commandment.
it was for personal kicks.
i think the only way i would get a response is if i posted a pic of my vagina with a sign that said “free pussy”… so, to my mind, negativland gets to call themselves representatives of social justice only as it applies to upper and middle class white males.
btw pg- be careful how you frame privilege. some folks (usually those that have a penis but not always) take that kind of fawning and use it to create a jim jones sense of personal self righteousness bordering on megalomania. its best not to encourage hero-worship, more helpful ultimately to encourage humane/healthy and mutually respectful creative appreciation. much better for the human race and for the hero’s being worshipped, ultimately.
it does all end in death, after all, and it ends up in the annals of history as nuthin but folly.
life is short, art is long, BUT love is all there really is when you break it down to the point of final departure - ie death. love wins out over ego, art and all else. if you void that contract with humanity, you fail. its just plain ol karma.
i wish you all to be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
I was reading the Wikipedia entry on Escape From Noise and was wondering about the assertion that Greg Ginn having had Methods of Torture removed from the SST reissue of the album. Is that ‘true’?
I mean, it’s Wikipedia and all.
If so, why?
Also, who wouldn’t like to hear EFN remixed?
Just sayin’?
re 542: the ‘you should feel privileged’ comment was spoken with tongue firmly in cheek. I do not, will not EVER hero worship Negativland, or anyone else, besides the one true Bob… (maybe)
Oh, and me and my not so white male sexual organ of course, gotta worship the member….
i have met most of the people involved in the eff as i am in technology and am an artist. i work with the creative commons folks and use their agreements in the work that i do.
i know a bunch of TED assholes. some are lady assholes.
i used to be a giant narcissist in my 20s and was taken all over the world as a result i became disgusted with people who let fame and success go to their head and then expect special treatment because i became one.
i think the biggest cultural malady in the modern age is narcissism, and artists/performers anyone in showbiz are the worst perps of that. especially when they say they are not - BIG RED FLAG.
ok, there has got to be something in there for someone to take issue with.
i am more to the left than the black panther party and an even bigger feminist man-LOVER than andrea dwarkin (people got her SOOOO wrong). i wear a cobra snake for a necktie, my chimbley is made out of human skulls. im just 42 and i dont mind dying.
a colleague/friend/scrapper of mine has just released the film HOWL to the festivals, it will soon be showing mainstream theaters maybe, mostly art houses.
i was invited to sundance for the screening but didn’t go. if you want to learn anything about obscenity, the injustice of prosecuting ART (as opposed to stupid fucking mind killing dick drooping porn) go see it. tis the tale of ginsburg’s trial for a POEM.
you think lenny bruce took it up the butt from the man, go see this movie.
RE: 550:
Yeah, the narcissism thing has become an obsession with me, as well.
I keep running into classic, textbook cases and can see how they continue to suck the life out of everyone around them.
Was briefly engrossed in the works of Dr. Sam Vaknin, but am not entirely convinced that he’s not simply an uber-narcissist who’s found a way to integrate his dysfunction into his psyche and thereby dismiss it.
The scary, ugly thing is when I recognize aspects of narcissism in myself.
our culture encourages it. it also encourages that ‘we get ours’ at the expense of whomever it being got from…. and the ruthlessness has permeated every centimeter of relations. especially intimate, but also family and social.
healthy narcissism is one thing we all should share, but western civ breeds a kind of selfishness that has advanced the cause of the asshole takes all with no thought to the what has been taken and who suffers. we bear no shame or remorse for our incivility anymore..
. the altar of the lowest common denominator. showbiz and government and religion breed the worst examples of that kind of thing. the pope, the performer, the senator. all egregious douchebags.
i think sam vaknin is an unhealed narcissist, which is why he is so spot on. i dont think he treats anyone from a place of altruism, but that he knows how sick he is and knows he can help people avoid those that won’t or can’t see the split in themselves. i think one of his best points is that a narcissist is fundamentally incapable of seeing his or her own narcissism, which is how and why it becomes pathological.
meanwhile, those of us that do spot the behavior in ourselves, or find it uncomfortable enough to reflect on, are probably saner than those that cant or wont admit to it as an issue.
a lot of the video work i did (when i did that sort of thing) was mashups of old national geographic vhs collected from thrift stores - totally abstract and dada. this link/artist is very similar to the style of my work - i need to digitize it so I can post it.
btw- the artist frank difficult in 560 + 561 is the person who i first heard negativland from. i was doing weird super 8 movies and playing music/making art in the early 80s and he was a dj at the unlv radio station in las vegas and he played a whole set one night and told me to listen. i was just a kid from a shitty background.
no one told me then that it was going to be much harder than i thought to be accepted as an artist who was also a feminist. and i dont mean the man version of feminist (shut up and look pretty, smarty pants) but the real version. thats where i heard I had mpd. when it became obvious that shut up and look pretty and show some pussy while you are at it is more interesting to str8 guys. this kind of thing:
thanks pg, the one about the first amendment is my point here and my reason for asking mark hosler to reconsider being so anti-regulation regarding file sharing. its ok to borrow from artists, but they lump all that obscenity stuff under the same amendment and it ends up being really dark, brutal actually.
i want to add samples (Im using the laptop and some fun software to add newagey sounds over his drumming) but i have yet to determine who or where i want to get it.
i play real instruments too, so I may just stick to the womanmade stuff..
i dig the people like us but am leaning toward more hand crafted. one of the bands i am in is old timey soul r&b and cuntry. old timey, lots of chanting and union labor sounding vocalizing….
cheers. thanks for being grossed out. that means a lot to women that men pay a bit of attention. when i was more of a public figure i was assaulted nearly on a weekly basis. horrid life. horrid.
also if you read the article in 569 - this pops out:
ews Corp. is a major owner of DirecTV, which sells more pornographic films than Flynt. In 2000, the New York Times reported that nearly $200 million a year is spent by the 8.7 million subscribers to DirecTV. Among News Corp.’s other media holdings are the Fox broadcasting and cable TV networks, Twentieth Century Fox, the New York Post, and TV Guide. Welcome to synergy: Murdoch also owns HarperCollins, which published pornography star Jenna Jameson’s best-selling book How To Make Love Like A Porn Star.
Murdoch has this whole country by the balls. It’s as bad as the collapse people suggest. It really is. There isn’t any innocent exploration left to be had. We are either going to get really smart really fast, or China will split us into sections and put the wallmart factorys on this continent and start their own gated communities where they can sit back and watch us be tormented the way we have tormented the world for so long now. Probably all broadcast on cable TV via Rupert Murderock….
read rebecca’s account. flynt - protected under the first amendment - the magazine’s advocacy of child rape. her account is similar to mine, hers worse. i think you can trace the increases of incidence of this kind of crime to the emergence of this magazine and its impact on brain. how can this be ok with anyone? if it is ok with you, perhaps you can consider the idea that you are a sociopath?
porn is art?
also, the song on thigmotactic that mocks some douchebag “healer” of women who come from child sexual abuse matched with a bunch of pictures of disembodied spread eagles and the vagina’s cut out. kinda sick if you are a woman who has been abused. not sending a very healthy mindset.
it would be nice to hear an argument defending not only the mockery of sexual abuse, but the weird vagina fetish behind that image…
none of this is funny once it has happened to you.
to me, that song sounds like a paen to masturbating on pictures of or onto actual women (or women who look like girls perhaps - skin as gelatin), who having been abused, are now the ones in the porn magazines who can’t cry or who will “put the lotion in the basket” …. creepy beyond my imagination. its just not a good idea to release something like that without a disclaimer.
if thats not the case, i request a correction. but the whole thing reeks of something very distorted, not ok, sick even.
also, negativland, you might want to reconsider the suppository up next to the pre teen girls face in your graphic that mocks big pharma, it might not sending the intended message in the best way possible to the intended audience (unless all you really care to attract to this page are other hustler readers)
considering all that exists out there in the world to reinforce the idea that putting things up childrens butts is funny/mockable, i would maybe take a different approach. maybe a little more thought out?
unless the message that you intended to send, i would refresh that graphic with someone older, or perhaps not a girl child, yeah?
” In Regarding the Pain of Others, Susan Sontag argued that to be a spectator of calamity has become quintessential to modern experience, with photographs of atrocity haunting modern consciousness. Visual understanding, though, is also an ever-changing experience, and it may be that digital Internet footage has in many ways overtaken the photograph as the modern form of technological representation that most closely approaches the intolerable; there exists on every screen the possibility to see what no one should see. This is no longer the case with photography. Digital footage is not framed in somber gallery exhibitions, mounted on museum walls, or filtered through any editorial process. Such images now belong to the public domain, for better or worse. They have lost almost all sense of origin, and function as a kind of traumatic global currency. The same images are recycled countless times for wildly divergent aesthetic and ideological purposes. For Sontag, there is always a moral need to question our right to witness atrocity: “Perhaps the only people with the right to look at images of suffering of this extreme order are those who could do something to alleviate it… or those who could learn from it. The rest of us are voyeurs, whether or not we mean to be.”
“It is this comfortable unreality that drives Sontag’s insistence that spectators of atrocity think past their sympathy, grief, and shock, the sheer sense of amazement that such horror exists, to think critically—to reach what she calls “moral or psychological adulthood.”
a good book (an ART book) is “On Photograpy” by Sontag.
I am not sure the hey man its art lefty culture we so vociferously depend on and defend is going to pay us back with the pleasure of flinching much longer. I have a feeling the pleasure will be all *theirs* pretty soon. From advertising our solipsistic pleasure to submitting to full control of fascism by short circuiting our collective adulthood. All in the span of what, 60 short years?
I quite like that one. I think the whole point of the suppository is the horrific idea that anyone would give drugs to their kids in ANY form. Obviously paracetamol for pain relief, but Mertz? Ritalin? It’s an attack on the pharmaceutical companies and their strong arm advertising, or at least that’s how I read it.
Would it really be any more or less offensive if it was a BOY in that picture? I would argue that the gender really doesn’t matter in this instance. If it did then surely it would still be as offensive with a boy. I really don’t get the argument of ‘this is offensive and sexist, but if it was a boy then hey that’s alright then…’
Glad you liked The Toilet, I thought it was some of the best music I’d heard for quite a while.
As for ‘Your Skin Is Gelatin’ I thought it was mainly just nonsensical cut n paste lyrics like the immortal ’squawking like a Pink Monkey Bird’ that Mr D Jones created back in the day. What makes me think I’m correct is the line ‘an empty bowl of cereal on a rock in a stream’. Or is that in some way sexist and suggestive of abuse? Perhaps I missed it.
think an older person, either gender, a teenager that did not look like a young girl would make the point better. i get the rape of innocence thing, yes, the medication of children -that girl looks like the one from the stealing showbiz video, yes, all most obvious. the concern in this is that because none of them are girls nor have girl children, i don’t trust the ethics behind this. just like one should not attempt a documentary film before the age of 40, or not attempt memoirs until one qualifes for AARP, I dont think one should use female subject/object qualifiers before being a girl or having one. just very dubious.
re: that song, when i teach art/audio/video/design, i dont allow students to create art that they then say was ‘unintentional’… not only because the art then is usually just shitty art, but also because you are wasting time. there are ways to do dada that are also intentional, and usually the unintentional anythign is just a fart in the wind. or worse.
meanwhile, again with the subject/object qualifier, if i did some embarrasonic penis song with some really bad penis art to go with it, i would be accused of supporting castration.
turn around is fair play, but i get the feeling this art collective exists in a testosterone vaccum where women are objects for the most part. and rides, pussy, etc.
Speaking of ‘unintentional’:
You might as well ‘call them out’ for their hoax back in ‘88!
The idea of being accused of causing a young child to murdering his parents…. well, it does ‘cross a line’, but it DID expose the lie of ‘main-stream’ journalism… or did it?
If a tree ’shocks’ alone in the forrest, does it shock?
They do seem uncomfortable in their position…. just my opinion, of course.
I would love to hear your very bad penis song with very bad penis accompanying artwork. I wouldn’t accuse you of supporting castration. Even if it said ‘Bobbit was in the right, chop of his wang tonight’ or something like that.
I’d just laugh. In fact, I may get my missus to record those very lines. I would do it myself, but I think the words may have more power coming from a woman’s lips. Or maybe not.
As for the ‘bad art’ thing, what is wrong with ‘bad’ art? Surely art is art is art, and good or bad are just subjective words and in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps the beholder will be a feminist who reads too much into a Negativland song or perhaps it may be a mysoganist who thinks Eminem really DOES want to rape everyone. Or maybe an average Joe who thinks ‘hmm I like this’.
PS - does your lack of meat and 2 veg mean that you can’t comment on anything remotely masculine? If you were to say the new Rambo flick was shit I wouldn’t tell you that you needed to be male to have an opinion
re 591: My wife always had a bit of a problem with Helter Stupid. She thought it was in bad taste. I thought it was one of the best and easiest ways to expose how news was and increasingly IS now gathered. And the sensationalism. Plus it makes for some great listening too.
Watching that again I have to say I am not surprised it was considered so shocking, but it’s actually pretty funny once you get over the extremely tabboo subject. And if you listen to what they’re saying then you realise that there is very little in there that is offensive.
from teaching art ad nauseum, it has been my civic duty to prevent the world from having to grapple with more jesus on the cross getting a blowjob from a playboy centerfold done in oils by someone who should be working in in data entry. its just a long standing paid/full benefits effort of mine to try to not only get people to own up to the tremendous bullshit behind their “messages” or just get freaking please off the pot. i am a great fan of bad art, but some art is a fart in the wind, should just blow right on by. im sure my daughter thought every crap she took when she figured out the potty was a wonderment that i should have photographed and framed, but is that really worth the time. in fact im late for a meeting, that peice of art is shit.
the testosterone sealed environment of negativland is sometimes hilarious, sometimes embarrassing beyond words. like i cant listen to it because it is so bad it makes me feel bad. like, not only do they not interact enough with women, the explanations they give don’t even make any sense.
sociopath or social critic? larry flynt is a “hero” ?!?!
if you can get away with anything, you are a charlatan. and yes, there are suckers born every minute.
“The left’s intransigency on this matter is too much like those on the right who insist on long sessions of watching hard core porno so they can condemn it. The reasoning behind the exercise becomes questionable and the motive transparent in its unexamined pathology.”
“*sigh*. So, it is now a left vs right thing? Are you arguing that the right believes rape is ethical? RAPE. RAPE. NOT CONSENSUAL.”
re 600 I didn’t ever make any accusation that you did. Just thought that the link was extremely relevant to what has been discussed on here in the past few days.
RE 601 - I never thought we should have been looking at those photos from Abu Ghrahib. It would have been one thing if we had done something to prosecute the war criminals and lawyers that are probably still masturbating to it, but the guernica post from yesterday reframes my whole argument against porn to include also tragedy porn.
cnn was showing a ton of footage of the aftermath of the haitian earthquake, at one point anderson cooper in his 2 sizes too small t shirt was standing at a garbage dump when a giant truck full of corpses was spilled behind him. all these descendents of slaves being dumped into an open grave. i kept feeling traumatized by the images, not only for the people who were not being allowed their privacy, but who’s to say your own son or daughter or mother or father’s body might have spilled out in front of your very eyes with this american ‘journalist’ standing there talking about it as if it were a news event requiring objectivity. IT was a FUCKING GIGANTIC HOLOCAUST, with a FUCKING NEWSCASTER!
to say that it seared into my brain was nothing. anyone who knows me knows i cry frequently over everything and anything, my past, our future, bad manners, etc. to be honest something very awful happened to me shortly after seeing that footage (which was put on the repeat cycle for that day). i immeadiately turned it off, walking away to distract myself.
a few days later i needed to masturbate and guess what showed up in my mindscreen (no porn, no toys, just me myself and i)? it was these fucking horrifying images, and because that was the first time i had ever even connected any visual tragedy wth an orgasm, i started me researching this stuff like a maniac. now im convinced that if evolved in tribes are wired to empathically relate to one another and to have a primary aversion to others suffering, if you allow this stuff into your brain, suddenly your brain is mapped and wired very very differently.
and that was the personal example of how i became convinced that when ted bundy said he slowly lost his ability to stay ‘human’ because he desensitized himself using harder and harder core porn sank in completely.
it hasn’t happened since (thanks virgin mary) but i do think that our industrialization is not only an earth rape (if you beleive in the gaia stuff) but a rape of our own survival instincts which have been wholly dependent on extended family and survival (for 100s of thousands of years at least).
so i now feel that if ‘man’ and yes some ‘woman’ but not to the same percentage, continue to use these images assuming it’s not doing anything negativ to change the interpersonal dynamic, we are so far off course that our impending mass suicide (ecocide) is a good thing for the planet, absolutely.
love,
convinced we are all fucked if we don’t all change
ps darwins real quote was - its not the smartest or strongest species that survive, its species the most adaptable to change
re: this documentary would be an example of those that will survive our excesses and idiocy of our tiny blip wart on the planet aka: western civilization. pending access to water and climate stability (which already sentences them to die distant from the giant earth rape but as another example of western hubris and non existent empathic ability … kbr may have already purchased the cave where ancestor bones lie, swiftly preparing it as an ass rape boys fort but not until or as soon as they can set up a greenzone with a decent burger king for their post coital shake. we need labor for the war up north, after all, don’t they know.
i would guess they don’t need pornography to learn how to have bad sex with eachother, tv to tell them how quickly we are mucking it up to take them with us to jesus, museums and galleries and schools to teach them how to make and sell their life which is also their art? i doubt they need the nat’l geographic people to blow smoke up their collective ass to make their lives meaningful as in this documentary (with the great photos)
long after our stupid poof is over, climate willing, this kind of thing will still be going on. the art here is also what inspired most of modern art, esp post industrial cubist, etc.
btw - terrible of me to suggest considering how addicted we all are to getting off, i know, but consider the thought that the circumcision rituals, and the timing of them during lifespan, and then also consider the emphasis on ritual harmony in the groups -
could that semi-neutering perhaps de-emphasize the solipsism that seems to have driven western civ to the brink, and that they have traded individual gratification in favor of the practice of collectivist unity?
Getting back to The Negs: I’ve always found them to be quite ‘non-sexual’. Maybe it’s me, but even the classic track “The Playboy Channel” has an anti-porn quality to it. The weatherman might say ‘the horrible noise’, but we all know it’s ‘noise’ what we groove on, right?
The strange sounds inside “Two Virgins” did more to me when I was a kid, than the photo of John & Yoko naked ever did!
Re 604: I’ve never thought of dead bodies or violence while masturbating. Eww…
Re 606: Very funny! (Proof that men aren’t the only ones who can have a deficit of empathy?) I suppose women are better than men because you’re abused more, so maybe men will be ennobled by traumatization. It’s one of the best arguments for child abuse I’ve ever read!
But seriously, folks, consider the development of circumcision rituals in the development of Western Civ. Also consider that the countries that circumcise most–Muslim nations, Israel, and the US–are the most violent. The PTSD circumcision causes males is likely one of the main causes so many of us are the way we are. Empathy can’t be taught through brutality.
606 was intentionally sarcastic and “shocking” - i don’t believe in circumcision or castration. i was just seeing what would happen if i wrote that. i took issue with that ritual long ago, even worked on a documentary about male circumcision (i was witness to my little brother’s when i was 4 and developed a freakishly protective mechanism for him that day) and the ptsd that ensues. i would think that rituals in dogon culture could not be put through a western lens, however, i don’t think we have an equivalent for it.
as fas as what happened when the dead body images showed up, its not that i was getting off to it, its just what popped up in my head when my body was releasing. which disturbed me to no end. i did not find it sexual, in fact i found it disturbing in a way that could not be explained.
my mother’s family are decsendents of slaves and native americans, so sometimes this stuff impacts me in a way that i cannot explain. there are genetic traumas that are carried sometimes, i think jewish folks and the german holocaust, armenians from the turkish, african americans from slavery, etc.
in the circumcision doc i replaced foreskins with uncooked calamari and cocktail sauce for some scenes. that part was ’special effects’
612 the tendermindfuck of my childhood was all the eastern mysticism i was exposed to. george harrison. meditation. people on lsd and peyote in the desert. being an extra in zabriskie point.
i dont understand the sexuality of negativland at all. i feel at once an aversion and an empathy, but also completely removed from any perspective that informs comprehension. i want to flush out thier cave with some estrogen air or something, metaphorically.
re 607 the more i listened to that song the more it grew on me. i think i listened to it 20 times yesterday, i used to teach that cutandpaste monty python animation effect and am super impressed with how far aftereffcts has grown as a tool
can someone help me understand male sexuality? from my perspective the whole act is humorous and tender. the male orgasm often appears akin to an epileptic seizure. i only want to protect the male when this happens.
what i am totally mystified by is how and why males, even after a tender epileptic seizure, would think that coming in one’s eye or choking you or biting you the point of bruising or bleeding is in order. when i encounter this, i have shut down to the point of hoping to survive it. it didn’t used to be the case (pre-internet) but now it seems like males think this is what women enjoy.
so then it seems only fair to reciprocate with crying or a return on the violence. im totally unable to comprehend any of it.
so im considering going asexual, but this new bf doesn’t try that stuff. he admits that it scares him too.
i literally feel like a rabbit in a maze when it comes to male sexuality, like predator-prey (im still prey, even in early middle age).
re 615: I would suggest that you are hanging around with the wrong type of men. I have never felt the urge to strangle anyone or ejaculate into an eye. In fact I don’t really get the point of cumshots at all, never found that part all that interesting. A turn off in fact truth be told. I always saw that as more a bi-product of the whole affair. Sure, I REALLY REALLY enjoy the FEELING of an orgasm, but cum? Meh. Pain in the arse to clean, sticky horrible mess. I don’t like being covered in it, so wouldn’t want to inflict it on anyone else.
I also find the male member strange, even though I’ve lived with one my whole life. I also feel cheated re the whole multiple orgasm thing. Cock and balls really look like they shouldn’t be there sometimes.
But hey, I AM a man, and sexuality is a bizarre thing. We all get our rocks off to different things, and fantasy is merely that. If I can watch Arnie machine-gunning the world without ever feeling the need to pick up a gun (far less shoot one), then I’m sure I can watch Billy BigDick pulling Busty Barbaras hair while doing her doggy-style without wishing to act it out in reality.
I never did get with this whole life imitating art thing. It’s just a cop out, you will copy things you wanted to do anyway. If they are depraved or abusive, then they have stemmed from a depraved and abusive MIND, not the art/film/music etc.
re 611: I can’t listen to that song without thinking of Mark Mothersbaugh’s toilet flushing.
Hey, -girl-,
What is your opinion on a subject that gets ‘bandied’ about on the Rigorous Intuition site: the concept of ‘trigger images/words/actions’. If too personal, I understand.
I just recently saw “Derailroaded”: The Wild Man Fisher Documentary, and while I like to think that ‘if you’re NOT paranoid, then there’s something wrong with you’, his sad story shows the perils of what happens when this idea is taken to its logical extremes.
re:622: right there with you…. and, let me tell you: these conversations with =girl= are changing my visions on certain things, last last weeks “South Park”, for example!
re 625: Haven’t watched any current South Park, so have no idea what you mean. I always liked how SP went with tabboo subjects and (to my mind at least) always seemed to totally ‘get’ them.
621 that animation is pretty silly. candy is dandy but liquor is quicker. seems like they were fairly tanked when they cooked that up. reminds me of that graphic circulating years ago - every time you masturbate, god kills a kitten
622 to speak to what makes a man and what makes a woman. you maybe dont realize how comprehensive the female sexual imagination is…? i mean, i can totally get off to that crazy stuff too. my problem is part that i grew up with the folks that made the sausage and have relatives that are total casualties for lack of better way to put it. suicided. the problem with porn is not the sex (except that its not sex, its prostituted sex) its the mindfuck, in that these are real people in a setting that we cannot comprehend. if you had that girl in front of you would you really think to put cocks in her mouth, ass, c*nt, etc? because not only would it be weird (all those other dudes with their cocks up next to yours) it probably would be quite complicated, physically draining, and to some extent boring. and the girl would be in pan (yes, that would hurt) and then everyon has to spooge all over her. not only are they probably on meth and crazed with satanic energy, but its highly unlikely its as clean as it looks. we sanitized our violence - all of it! and what suffers is not just empathy but those that are used in those movies. they are real people. if you saw your mom, sister, wife, daughter getting fucked like that, um, yeah. do i really need to go into that?
women are just as visual as men, btw. that whole “male brain” thing is nonsense. i grew up with an original 50s stripper aunt, who used to do little strip teases for me and my brothers just for kicks (pasties, big fake tits, swirling boobs, etc). i found it not sexual, but humorous. women can appreciate not only beauty in men, but also beauty in women. the point around my story here is that i think sexuality is as powerful in both sexes. the pregnancy part really does change one from fuckbody to human condominium, and it is at that point we start to fathom not only our reality as carriers of future humans but the vagina ceases to be just a sexual object. trust me. if men pushed humans out their parts you would share this re-prioritizing. how do i know this? i was a maneater for a good portion of my life until i got knocked up. then i became a mother. i had sex very infrequently. i used porn. i started to feel ashamed at myself for watching porn (having made human life with sex, suddenly my human being could not be made into an object as i had been when i was small)… in other words, perhaps a little more respect for our ability to be sexual, and what sex is biologically for could reorient and reframe the pirate bay version of sex.
on and on i could go. i went square dancing last night and danced with maybe 25 people. what a great fucking time! men and women, all strangers, holding hands, twirling. i feel unpunk admitting this, but we have lost so much as we lose eachother. i havent felt that connected to anything in ages.
i digress. that last bit wasn’t very cynical. but i appreciate this feedback, and really am grateful you are offering up your opinions and this dialog has become so nuanced. thanks yall
vc - i will look into trigger words (im a classic case of walking dissociation) and getback to you.
621 that animation is pretty silly. candy is dandy but liquor is quicker. seems like they were fairly tanked when they cooked that up. reminds me of that graphic circulating years ago - every time you masturbate, god kills a kitten
622 to speak to what makes a man and what makes a woman. you maybe dont realize how comprehensive the female sexual imagination is…? i mean, i can totally get off to that crazy stuff too. my problem is part that i grew up with the folks that made the sausage and have relatives that are total casualties for lack of better way to put it. suicided. the problem with porn is not the sex (except that its not sex, its prostituted sex) its the mindfuck, in that these are real people in a setting that we cannot comprehend. if you had that girl in front of you would you really think to put cocks in her mouth, ass, c*nt, etc? because not only would it be weird (all those other dudes with their cocks up next to yours) it probably would be quite complicated, physically draining, and to some extent boring. and the girl would be in pan (yes, that would hurt) and then everyon has to spooge all over her. not only are they probably on meth and crazed with satanic energy, but its highly unlikely its as clean as it looks. we sanitized our violence - all of it! and what suffers is not just empathy but those that are used in those movies. they are real people. if you saw your mom, sister, wife, daughter getting fucked like that, um, yeah. do i really need to go into that?
women are just as visual as men, btw. that whole “male brain” thing is nonsense. i grew up with an original 50s stripper aunt, who used to do little strip teases for me and my brothers just for kicks (pasties, big fake tits, swirling boobs, etc). i found it not sexual, but humorous. women can appreciate not only beauty in men, but also beauty in women. the point around my story here is that i think sexuality is as powerful in both sexes. the pregnancy part really does change one from fuckbody to human condominium, and it is at that point we start to fathom not only our reality as carriers of future humans but the vagina ceases to be just a sexual object. trust me. if men pushed humans out their parts you would share this re-prioritizing. how do i know this? i was a maneater for a good portion of my life until i got knocked up. then i became a mother. i had sex very infrequently. i used porn. i started to feel ashamed at myself for watching porn (having made human life with sex, suddenly my human being could not be made into an object as i had been when i was small)… in other words, perhaps a little more respect for our ability to be sexual, and what sex is biologically for could reorient and reframe the pirate bay version of sex.
on and on i could go. i went square dancing last night and danced with maybe 25 people. what a great fucking time! men and women, all strangers, holding hands, twirling. i feel unpunk admitting this, but we have lost so much as we lose eachother. i havent felt that connected to anything in ages.
i digress. that last bit wasn’t very cynical. but i appreciate this feedback, and really am grateful you are offering up your opinions and this dialog has become so nuanced. thanks yall
vc - i will look into trigger words (im a classic case of walking dissociation) and getback to you.
re 629: It’s great dancing with a large group of people isn’t it? I used to do this a lot at metal gigs, yes they did used to be quite a communal gathering affair back in the 90’s.
Punk music has it’s merits. But as a way of life it is rather flawed.
this subject is way too complex to get into without a book written, but basically if you look at this: http://www.lucifer.com/virus/memlex.html
and having taught advertising memetics and psychographics and the deconstruction of such, i am convinced that our exposure, the tit of media we now suck on since the invention of television and now all the other forms of media, have worked their wormholes into our brains for a reason. the reason being the obvious, mind control etc.
as far as my own conditioning, i was raised like a lot of young girls, to doubt my own intuition and be dubiously led down the path to serving men. that disney had a strong hand in that is no surprise. but for some reason i always had the overriding ability to see beyond the hoaxes. if something was too fake feeling or looking, i would not be convinced.
thus, from what happened to me, could have been ritualized on those that perpetrated, but the escape of the environment where most of that was going on (from los angeles to las vegas) meant that the organization of child molestation that i think was better constructed and permitted wasn’t an option in vegas. we were also too poor and too removed from power for it to have been something constructed.
what happened to me was one of the perps would be released from jail and would come to live at our house to rehab (for drug charges usually) and the perp would do what had been done to him in childhood and also likely from prison. my own limited exposure to this person (male) prevented me from having to create mpd to cope. I am certain of this.
the female perpetrator did dress me up provocatively (sexy adult clothing and makeup) and photograph me. I was not photographed nude, but was made to feel like i was being exploited. other things happened too. but that was when i was in los angeles where the whole thing felt much more organized and less messy/haphazard.
no surprise that los angeles is the home of organized meme and the porn industry.
my training in triggers came from my parents, who would beat me for speaking out about what was happening, or sadistically deprive me of basics by locking me in my room for lying for hours. they both had been abused (father by catholic church, mother by southern baptists and mormons) and were never as bad as their perps. we talk a lot about it now, and they compare our upbringing (my older brother who was beaten daily is now mentally disabled in contrast to my younger brother who was not beaten - he was physically frail and could have been killed by what they did to my older more robust brother) to theirs, and apparently they were very liberal by the standards that they were raised by. and i believe it.
both of them seemed to be in dissociative states when they were being violent. they would use many degrading terms and those became part of my lexicon of self-referential internal dialog (im a cunt, etc) …
i have been fortunate to have always had the outlet of art and music. without it i would absolutely be dead by now.
in art, i often have depicted myself as two headed. the angry self wants to kill the decent self. the angry self is not an “other” as in multiple, but it was split off as a result of being beaten for “lying” about being molested. i was also more sadistically beaten by my brother, and his treatment was the tyranny of a child, so for what its worth having learned about sexuality from him, his use of porn has informed my strong current of awarness that it engendered the death of his possible empathic self. lately i have convinced him to pull his hustler honeys down from the wall (he lives with my parents, unable to mentally sustain himself) and he has agreed that he has never been able to disconnect violence from sex. we did also observe a lot of my mom’s being beaten and called names, so he picked up any number of bad habits there. he ended up in jail for shooting his wife. she was only injured, refused to press charges, he was released.
my survival instincts are to reveal as much about myself as possible to any potential partner right away, assuming this gives one fair warning in advance of emotions i have related to surviving sexual abuse (crying, occasional rages that tend to correlate to abusive or narcissistic behaviors are the only extent that i act out)… what i am curious about now is that men perhaps know that sexual abuse survivors tend to have less boundaries, and that my revealign that about myself seems to turn otherwise normal seeming men into degraders - biters, chokers, spoogers, etc.
as far as trigger words go, i do think that we might all have some that commit to memory and force dissociation, from major or minor traumas. do i believe that the CIA trains us via media - yes, completely. people being unaware of the sick child molesting racist agenda of larry flynt being an obvious example, the more covert (lady gaga is a curious example of a possible meme designed to continue to give young girls the idea that they are headless fuckbodies for mens use, sure easily). did i have any that could potentially derail my progress -
sure - i am an easy victim to narcissists. both of my parents used that splitting mechanism to cope, so not only did i become one (that would be the only alter i have ever really known - the “false” self that sam vankin speaks of) i am also perpetually victim to them and thier false selves.
jim jones was just another man, after all. look what he got away with. through music, repetition (which is mostly what church is), fear and more fear.
perhapstrying to undo a family trauma the legacy of becoming so privledged he does not really have to “work” for a living….
screenwriters family did have black servants and he was raised by them for the most part… old southern money
the actress wins oscar and finds out that while filming movie husband was fucking nazi porn skank
said screenwriter and wife are republicans and notoriously classist. i would even suggest from private conversations that they are also closeted racists
vc consider also, perhaps, just perhaps, tiger woods was brought down by pornbot operatives? the cia uses sex to get under the skin of certain subjects, why not Tiger. All this Obama/Pelosi “success” vs the undercurrent of racism/sexism via the mainstream media owned by the military industrial complex and their perps?
What a freak show…. I assume no relation to Richard Lewis. (spent the week watching “Curb Your Enthusiasm” with the wife).
As for GaGa, I though it was just a 21st century Marilyn Manson/Brittney hybrid: I want a blood drenched Diamanda Galas to ’settle her hash’!
why my dad avoided the church and the mafia (but his family didn’t)
my dad played trombone with the ratpack. the week before MM died, there was a show where she was being flopped around by handlers like a ragdoll. she got so tanked (or was so drugged) that my dad remembers her being dragged out by two big thugs. a week later she was dead.
my older brother was born a couple of years later, and my dad was driving mom and bro back and forth between tahoe, vegas and los angeles. eventually landing a job with elvis, we settled in las vegas. i was born shortly before that. the international hotel was my dad’s employer was a mafioso. my dad had to capitulate a ton of his dignity to keep his job.
he swore off the catholic church and the mafia shortly after we moved to las vegas, his last concession to his family allowed my younger brother to be baptized in a church that still exists on the strip near circus circus. he did his best to keep us from them, and whenever he was called to testify we were sent to stay with aunts and uncles in los angeles (they would suggest a hit on us kids or his parents, not him).
if marilyn was our first ‘pinup’ and to such an extent she represented innocence or girly sexuality, i think it hit me young (overhearing his insider stories) that capitulating to that las vegas thing would bring about an early death.
Having most of my sexual life happen before the internet sex/porn boom, i don’t think most fellers even knew to think choking, biting, facial spooging or multiple penetration, etc, was sexual (not to the extent that it shows up now). i had assaults happen, and those were by sociopaths. and they were violent, and the acts committed by today’s standards of normal sex (or what appears normal to seemingly normal men who would ABSOLUTELY take offense to the idea of being called sociopathic).
i disagree that you have to be prone to that kind of thinking first. My take is that these are more often than not guys caught up in the cycle of “need to up the ante to get off” who find themselves aiming for one of those fantasies with someone like me (abused, rabbit scared) and thinking it will go off just fine.
in fact, i asked one of them (normally they have no explanation for why they find this so compelling, and when you ask them, they stop calling) he said he saw it online a bunch of times and thought it was hot.
you really would have to have a vagina to know how it looks from this side of the fence.
ok, subject getting tired, even im getting tired of it. please just don’t assume that you are immune or your buddy is or that guy in the band you like is either. they always turn out to be the “quiet neighbor” who kept to himself and seemed so nice.
Many people leave lives of quiet desperation. Damn them? Well, let
Many people live lives of quiet desperation. Goddamn them? I tend to believe that shit happens, live and let live……etc. My apogies for all that has happened to everyone.
I am a male primate (close relative to a monkey) and have seen, first hand , the shit that males of my species can inflict on females. I do not now, nor have I ever felt compelled to do what I have seen. I don’t think that seeing or experiencing abuse as a child will make that child into a monster at adulthood. Abuse of women has been a raality, long before the existance of easy access pornography. Men are who they are.
its the nuance of the getoff i refer to, with all due respect. it has changed significantly as the versions of what people learn from have changed. i have had so many men (friends, lovers, etc) say they learned ‘how to have sex’ from watching porn that its hard for me to take your word for it when i already have theirs.
btw, do you have a vagina hoosier?
most of the guys are not what you would technically call monsters either, they just got weird ideas somewhere.
do you think a boy child is born with the desire to choke, spooge on, or bite a woman hard for sexual purposes?
how is it that so many non-vagina holders are experts on what happens or should or does or does not happen to vagina holders?
you would see the same thing unfold yesterday if you watched any of that US heathcare reform debate get voted on. all the men and their sniveling, weeping fetus love.
assuming “hoosier” nicknamerefers to a guy, and not a ‘hooters’ waitress… if not, have you ever had sex with more than one guy? cuz i gots my research right here.
girl….your vagina is not as important as you think it is. There are mamy ways that women are abused and subjugated that do not involve any perversions of the sex act.
I would never want to think for you and am sorry if i gave that impression. I was simply expressing myself.
again, you really should not speak for the experiences of women in such a global way until you ARE ONE. I don’t pretend to think my vagina is important, i am curious as to why it has become a FETISH object instead of part of the body. You came into this discussion late, and are picking up in the middle of a long, drawn out elaborate Q and A.
i don’t try to speak for men, i try to speak to my experiences WITH MEN, to try to continue to see if there is any humanity to be had. Your abuse isn’t helping with that cause.
you sir, should reconsider your take on bullshit before the bull bites you in the ass where you shit.
except you are going to have to go back and read ALL that was posted, and not just jump in to attack without an informed opinion about what you are attacking about.
reading isn’t really that popular, I know. but if you don’t want to end up looking kinda eggy-on-the-facey, you should retrace your steps a little and go back about 100 posts. I think you are looking to have the argument i had with mean boys 1, 2 and 3. maybe you are in the club and you are writing from the fort.
The Bullshit comment was my evaluation of your arguement and was not intended to express any judgment of your intellectual capacity. You have some good points but when you insult, please remember that all of us who were born with a penis have fragile igos and…well…by gosh…some of us are devistated by your whit.
you must realize while you have fragile egos, you are still pretty much in charge. its a fight I really don’t want to have to fight anymore, and frankly I am SHOCKED everytime someone wants to have the fight.
btw - i have had to develop this wit to survive in what has been a shark infested sea. i didn’t choose any of it, but I have to make my way without a lot of the resources afforded those in the higher caste.
whether you or I like it or not, there are a ton of circumstances that need to chage or our species is going to kill itself off.
reference health care - you would think the Nazi’s just invaded Texas for all the flapdoodle about the rights of the unborn.
im telling you, if you think its hard to be a man in this world, try being a woman, and then try being a poor woman. and then try being a poor woman who’s father was considered a n*gr.
and then try being a woman who thought she had met the nicest man on earth who then proceeded to bite her to bruising more than once, and came in her eye.
not only is that a sad and humiliating experience, when i asked ‘why’ … that person made up a bunch of excuses about me being ‘mentally ill’ and took off.
humiliating, hurtful, sad and devastating. all the while convincing me he was going to help me heal from sexual abuse, talked me out of a marriage that gave me financial stability, and now, because i cried, won’t talk to me.
mostly because i challenged him about sexist nonsense and porn. fragile ego!?!?! how about supreme leader ego?
and, while i am at it, he has just a little bit to do with this negativland stuff.
and he owes a few of us low-status females just a tiny bit of an apology for things said and done in dishonest and destabilizing ways. but due to the worship of many fragile egoed men, won’t ever have to offer anything to anyone except “im an artiste” … with a toss of the beret, and off to the next victim.
the world looks very different when one has a mans come in ones eye.
I don’t think that i have ever complained to anyone about being burdened as a man. I understand that your experiences are unique compared to mine and maybe to the rest of the people here. There really isn’t any way that any of us can chnage that. I appreciate your point of view but I cannot accept all of it. I wish you well and thank you for sharing your views. I don’t wish to debate and will cease.
Good luck to you in making us aware. I’ll continue to read your contributions.
i was advised by an elderly professorial type (teaches quantum physics and antrho-astronomy, that men prefer to see women as either sexual chattel or totally devoted mommies. the diversity of our being either polymaths or mensa IQs or complex human beings , he insists, has yet to become acceptable to males as a component of female existence, hes in his 80s and he pretty much thinks that the world of men seeing women is still a flat earth.
Michael Moore wrote a neat peice about this in the huffpo. I will pass along the link.
truly, with both a uterus and a brain, STILL very few people in postions of power give two shits what an actual woman thinks.
behold the Pelosi, she threw a pitch that sent the resistance scrambling. Too late, already out of the park.
menfolk, I know its hard, you get all hung up on the idea that women are supposed to like all this crap and maybe you find a few who do or get mad at your wives because they don’t. but truth be told you are just as human as us. and if the shoes were on your feet, you would be pissing and moaning way louder.
and i firmly believe that you are all so spoiled you cannot and for the most part, unless you still have a liv human heart beating in your chest and not some false human heart substitue, that you stand to gain more from learning about why women are sad and bedraggled than you do by constantly telling us to shut up because you dont agree.
As fer me, I’m going to take all my knowledge of science, and all my observational experience, and guess that females of this species have just as many human ego drawbacks and fallbacks as males do. They’re just different ones… But let’s not dwell on Negativ’s.
i wouldnt go that far -im as big an anne coulter hater as the rest, but i have never bitten somone to bruising nor cum in their eye. in fact, i dont get ideas like that. if i did, and somone asked me why i did it, i would talk to them about it, help them understand me a little. not just run back to my man cave and feel empowered having taken advantage of another sucker/girl.
ps the words polymath, mensa IQ were not in my lexicon until i encountered your supreme leader. his way of talking me out of my marriage to a commoner was to suggest that i was being abused. and in a sense, i was, but the abuse that ended up coming to pass when i entered a relationship with your supreme leader was on a whole other level of mindfuck - closer to the pump and dump kind. the working class husband i had was more simple, didn’t need much from me, and didn’t need porn. to enounter someone who’s getoff felt like i was a masturbation device was shocking and disturbing. not only do i feel bad for the commoner who i was convinced was beneath me, i have no way to explain to him how duped i feel by both his and your supreme leaders inabilty to see me in three dimensions.
it never fails to surprise me how much the group think thing will happen in a small band of males. wheter at a porn convention, negativland show/comment board, lynching, etc, the male pack is formidable, toxic, and definitely a harsh environment for a thinking person.
pps - if your supreme leader is capable of duping me, then i would take good look at yourselves.
ppps. no wonder he thinks hes so smart- this is the level of debate you all engage in!
agreed. i would like to thank all the members of this board for reminding me why i thought that negativland had so few female listeners in the first place.
when one woman tries to visit a boys club of a board, it ends up feeling like a mental/virtual ideological gang rape.
Re 615: Go find a copy of Mike Lew’s book “Victims No Longer” and read the “About Men” section.
will read, thanks for the tip.
to vc and pg - thanks for being human beings.
to c - i wish you well and that your suffering abates.
to NL - i hope you learn a bit more about ‘influence’ and ‘power’ and the male brain from this vomit-like contribution i have added as critique but also encouragement to try to expand your horizons a bit.
to the rest of you - stupid is as stupid does.
im off to try to help heal the world, not hurt it some more. and that includes boys and girl. both. and … the transgendered….
(i know i know, im very dumb thinking being kind matters any more, or caring about exploitation is the healthier choice)
love
cares about people more than getting off (<-idiot, whore, dumb cunt, keep em coming boys, you can’t do worse than I have already heard 50 million times over)
back again - i dont want to forget to thank phalaris - you were always kind, not once did you try to mess with my head for not being in the guys club or insult me for not liking porn.
thank you thank you thank you.
namaste
Well,on a non-related subject…..
I mention earlier that we’ve had a bit of a “Curb You Enthusiasm” marathon here, and, on the extra, on a little PROMO for Season 6, Larry Charles is wearing a “Copywrite Infringement Is Your Best Entertainment Value” T-shirt!!!
Watch FZ rehearsing the incredible piece, “Food Gathering In Post-Industrial America, 1992″ and other “Yellow Shark” tunes in this GREAT FOOTAGE!!!! ….Just like he was still here……..
Please please please can the current crop of All Art Radio OTE shows be dated? I mean in the left link for previous shows. I am quickly developing RSI coming back here day after day week after week trying to find the most up to date show, only to find it is one I’ve already downloaded and heard.
Then 2 are posted at once, and not in chronological order. I’m not complaining, but, a little help here????
Been enjoying the current shows Mr Hazard, keep up the good work.
Dear Mr. Hazard,
Deep within the bowels of this past OTE, there were clips of someone giving a speech about the allure of ‘anti-intellectualism’. I loved it! How was that guy, and where can I hear the whole thing?
I may consider posting previous OTE episodes on megaupload or rapidshare or the like (if the filesize isn’t too big…)
I don’t think Negs will have a problem with this (I would mainly post the most recent FREE episodes, wouldn’t want to take away revenue stream), but if there is let me know.
If folk are interested in such a service let me know too. Just post a reply on here, or on WAH. Will post this on OTE d/l page and Write Anything Here also.
I also have problems sometimes with the downloads but always seem to get them eventually.
Re 692:
I don’t remember that OTE dialog - I never do. But it doesn’t matter because the way I collect stuff off media is very (excuse the expression) haphazard, and most of the time I have no idea who I’m recording. And this never bothers me because I’m actually interested in the effect of broadcasting anonymous human thoughts and ideas, unattributed, so it is the ideas themselves that register for whatever value they may have in themselves, unmediated by the presumed “authority” of the speaker.
Same for music. No back announcing music tracks.
Re 698: As always, anybody can do anything they want with OTE. There are NO restrictions on reuse of any kind.
Well that kinda answered my non question. Figured as much. The offer stands if anyone wishes it. I just notice that some folks seem to have more trouble/less patience when it comes to d’l from here.
That would be brilliant if you could make OTE shows available elsewhere.
However I’m still not able to access the AAR shows from February 12th and 19th. I’m still getting the ‘file not found’ error.
Have you had any luck yourself yet?
re 701: I think the error occured AFTER I had successfully downloaded the shows you mention. I reckon it could be part of the shady CONSPIRACY to thwart Negativlands progress to popularity…
I will look into putting some shows up somewhere. A good source of older OTE shows is here:
Up to April 2008. I would also recommend buying the gaps in the shows from Negativland themselves, whenever the CONSPIRACY is beaten and OTE becomes purchasable once more. They do a great line in discounted bulk buying which I can personally vouch for.
I will post on here in the next few days once I get round to posting some shows.
Bulk buying, along with ANY purchase of OTE shows is off-limit for now. Server issues or something. But when the shows go back on sale just email snugganut@negativland.com and ask for the best price on whatever batch of shows you want. I think mine went to around half what I would have paid for the shows singularly. I stumbled upon Serpent X a while ago, it is great for OTE and loads of Puzzling Evidence too, though I’m still only partially getting into that show.
One thing about the shows on other sites is that they aren’t as high quality as the archive output from the Negativland website. I’ve scanned through a bunch of shows on that site and another and found them interesting to get a glimpse, but these are shows recorded off the radio and sometimes have signal fadeout or other noise and compression issues. But if you want a high quality version of a past show that was recorded from the main mixing console, you can head on over to negativland.com.
re 707: Agreed, a fair amount of the Serpent X archives have audio issues, never had anything like that from an episode downloaded from here.
Anyway, as promised, the pilot of my re-posting of old OTE shows. This is the first show of Feb 10. Let me know how it works for you, and I may start a mirror site if it is successful.
You are most welcome. Since that went OK, think I’ll go ahead over the next week or so with an OTE mirror site. Was the speed for the download OK? I find megaupload is about the best free upload/download site.
Will post the link to the mirror site once I create it.
JARON LANIER
Musician, Computer Scientist; Pioneer of Virtural Reality; Author, You Are Not A Gadget: A Manifesto
THE FLAWS OF THE LATEST POP VERSION OF THE INTERNET HAVE MADE ME MORE OF A BIOLOGICAL REALIST, AND IN PARTICULAR HAVE MADE ME MORE SENSITIVE TO NEOTENY
The Internet as it evolved up to about the turn of the century was a great relief and comfort to me, and influenced my thinking positively in a multitude of ways. There were the long-anticipated quotidian delights of speedy information access and transfer, but also the far more important optimism born from seeing so many people decide to create Web pages and become expressive, proving that the late 20th century’s passive society on the couch in front of the TV was only a passing bad dream.
In the last decade, the Internet has taken on unpleasant qualities, and has become gripped by reality-denying ideology.
The current mainstream, dominant culture of the Internet is the descendant of what used to be the radical culture of the early Internet. The ideas are unfortunately motivated to a significant degree by a denial of the biological nature of personhood. The new true believers attempt to conceive of themselves as becoming ever more like abstract immortal information machines, instead of messy, mortal, embodied creatures. This is nothing but yet another approach to an ancient folly; the psychological denial of ageing and dying. To be a biological realist today is to hold a minority opinion during an age of profound, overbearing, technologically-enriched groupthink.
When I was in my twenties, my friends and I we were motivated by the eternal frustration of young people that they are not immediately all made rulers of the world. It used to seem supremely annoying to my musician friends, for instance, that the biggest stars, like Michael Jackson, would get millions of dollars in advance for an album, while an obscure, minor artist like me would only get $100K advance to make one (and this was in early 1990’s dollars.)
So what to do? Kill the whole damned system! Make music free to share, and demand that everyone build reputation on a genuine all-to-all network instead of a broadcast network, so that it would be fair. Then we’d all go out and perform to make money, and the best musician would win.
The lecture circuit was particularly good to me as a live performer. My lecture career was probably one of the first of its kind that was driven mostly by my online presence. (In the old days, my crappy Web site got enough traffic to merit coverage as an important Web site by the mainstream media like the New York Times.) It seemed as though money was available on tap.
Seemed like a sweet way to run a culture back then, but in the bigger picture, it’s been a disaster. Only a tiny, token number of musicians, if any, do as well within the new online utopia as even I used to do in the old world, and I wasn’t particularly successful. Every musician I have been able to communicate with about their true situation, including a lot of extremely famous ones, has suffered after the vandalism of my generation, and the reason isn’t abstract but because of biology.
What we denied was that we were human and mortal, that we might someday have wanted children, even though it seemed inconceivable at the time. In the human species, neoteny, the extremely slow fading of our juvenile characteristics, has made child rearing into an extreme, draining long-term commitment.
That is the reality. We were all pissed at our own parents for not coming through in some way or other, but evolution has extended the demands of human parenting to the point that it is impossible for parents to come through well enough, ever. Every child must be disappointed to some degree because of neoteny, but economic and social systems can be designed to minimize the frustration. Unfortunately the Internet, as it has come to be, maximizes it.
The way that neoteny relates to the degradation of the Internet is that as a parent, you really can’t go running around to play gigs live all the time. The only way for a creative person to live with what we can call dignity is to have some system of intellectual property to provide sustenance while you’re out of your mind with fatigue after a rough night with a sick kid.
Or, spouses might be called upon to give up their own aspirations for a career, but there was this other movement called Feminism happening at the same time that made that arrangement less common.
Or, there might be a greater degree of socialism to buffer biological challenges, but there was an intense libertarian tilt coincident with the rise of the Internet in the USA. All the options have been ruled out, and the result is a disjunction between true adulthood and the creative life.
The Internet, in its current fashionable role as an aggregator of people through social networking software, only values humans in real time and in a specific physical place, that is usually away from their children. The human expressions that used to occupy the golden pyramidion of Maslow’s pyramid, are treated as worthless in themselves.
But dignity is the opposite of real time. Dignity means, in part, that you don’t have to wonder if you’ll successfully sing for your supper for every meal. Dignity ought to be something one can earn. I have focused on parenting here, since it is what I am experiencing now, but the principle becomes even more important as people become ill, and then even more as people age. So, for these reasons and many others, the current fashionable design of the Internet, dominated by so-called social networking designs, has an anti-human quality. But very few people I know share my current perspective.
Dignity might also mean being able to resist the near-consensus of your peer group.
no, that LANIER guy is actually a giant producer of a ton of content still. he just is making a point about ’survival’ and how difficult it becomes in old age to make a career out of theft. meaning - he really could use some cash money for his efforts after a lifetime of reasonably considering his ‘art’ a public offering (free, steal me, etc.) things like declining health (and missing insurance coverage) and the need to be paid in order to eat are entering his conscious awareness….
totally valid contribution to the discussion, his book “you are not a gadget” esp.
Q: Aren’t appropriation and reuse central to culture? What’s wrong with doing those things on the Internet?
A: Appropriation and reuse are central to culture, of course. I have had a few questions at talks about Hip Hop culture, and I always say I wish Web 2.0 was more like Hip Hop. Imagine if you usually didn’t get to know who was rapping, or if you could only know a name, but not the person’s story? Would that be culture? Hip Hop is about people - some vastly more talented or ethical than others - but the actors are humans with character and history, not information fragments.
If you are being expressive and want to do some appropriating of your own, may I suggest some ways to do it that you will probably find rewarding, even though some effort is involved?
a) Internalize what you want to appropriate first, so that it comes out of you as both an appropriation and as your personal expression. A golden example would be Thelonious Monk learning stride piano and then turning out his Monkified stride entwinement- and I realize it might be intimidating to bring up a stellar example like that… but that’s the path to meaningful culture.
b) Don’t appropriate something just because there’s some hit of novelty in it, even though you have no idea what it meant to the people who made it originally. That’s what missionaries do to the cultures of native peoples. Connect, understand, or empathize with the people you appropriate from, to the degree you can. It’s often hard to understand or connect with other people, even in the best of circumstances, just because that’s the human condition. Any little bit of awareness across mysterious interpersonal chasms you achieve is a triumph, and the only source of meaning. (That doesn’t mean that all appropriation has to be based on sympathy. What I’m saying applies equally well to such things as satire and criticism.)
wasn’t our generation the one formed on all that ‘everything you know is wrong’….?
thusly, why is the challenge that Lanier presents any different than what underlies that basic premise that everything should be questioned, even our own doctrines?
have we become like conservatives, who cling to rhetoric and theory even when it proves to be invalid/unsuccessful/negating?
Q: The ideas you criticize are more than just abstract ideas to me. They are touchstones of the way I think about goodness in the world and part of the shared experience I have with my best friends. How can you even think of trying to take them down?
A: This is not easy. In my own experience, I clung to ideas that mattered to me for years even after I didn’t really believe in them any more. In my case, it was some late neo-Marxism, some over-the-top feminism, some unbalanced anti-Americanism, and other colorful, consoling explanations for the strange, tricky phenomenon of being alive in my particular time and place. My sense is that when ideas are more than ideas - when they are touchstones of identity, solace, or happiness - then it can take a rational person 10 to 20 years to accept that they might not be entirely correct.
Fortunately, you rarely have to entirely reject beloved ideas, only parts of them. Once you dissect cherished ideas in your head to become more discerning, you lose a little, but gain much more.
A lot of people believe things today that they’ll have to learn to fine tune if either America the nation or humanity the species is to survive. The troublesome ideas these days often have to do with religious fundamentalism or extremist nationalism. The abandonment of cherished thoughts is a hard process that a great many people will have to somehow endure. It’s one of the most honorable and difficult things a person can accomplish.
I don’t really get how ‘internalising what you appropriate’ makes a damn bit of difference to the originator(s) of the source(s).
Surely it’s entirely up to the individual how much anyone wants to learn about what they sample or even about sounds that may influence their ‘original’ content (notwithstanding the argument that there is NO SUCH THING as original content).
I had to laugh at the example of knowing who is rapping on a hip hop record, like that is ever a problem. I can’t for the life of me think of any hip hop artist who isn’t telling anyone listening EXACTLY who they are in every SINGLE VERSE, sometimes several times. You don’t get that with rock bands. Consider how weird The Ace of Spades would sound if it went something like this:
If you like to gamble, I tell you I’m your man
I’m L E M M Y yes you know me, you win some lose some it’s all the same to the Motorhead crew
The only girl I need is the Ace Of Spades
The Ace Of Spades
Motorhead 1980 motherfuckers
The Ace Of Spades……
I say sample what you will, even if you have no clue of the source. My favourite quoted sample source is on No Business ‘a Death Metal band’. I think it may even be the same one that’s on Its All In Your Head FM. The snippet used is no less important for the fact that Negativland has no clue which death metal band they have sampled.
i dunno, i see the light on a lot of his arguments because i am exposed to so much of this new fangled detached-entity style sampling stuff. i have taught audio as well (reason, protools) and watched the kids go about grabbing stuff out of the internet air and faltering about with no relevant context. you may not live in an area where the exposure level for this stuff is so high, so it may not seem as valid, but when you teach music, you have to give a bit of history, or its just crap crap crap.
listen, i dig negativland as much as the next dudebro, but sometimes they are so far off (hosler’s vagina song makes me purp perp) its embarrassing. that would be a really good example of a way to not pull out samples for novelty *(once one is raped, ones perspective on sex changes permanently, so mocking a charlatan sexual abuse “healer” and contextualizing it next to porn is akin to mocking someone having been beaten up for being ugly or nerdy)*
yall are super white and sooooooo male, that much is obvious
i want to see negativland pull out of the fratboy nosedive, and no the ’snag’ self-labeling does not make you an honorary female
Love,
YHWH
btw - sometimes i think negs are trying to block the IPs they track for me… or sometimes the site post option just don’t work. i love the idea of culture jammers being afraid of being jammed. BOO!
also, lanier was suggesting if you want to do the genre WELL, not that you ‘can’t or should’ not (no one is nannying this anymore, in case you haven’t noticed) you should consider the source and what you are sourcing. i play multiple instruments, and so far on the drums i have not learned enough about it to have my own style. but on guitar and bass i do, and on the software i do as well. the software especially makes you instantly suck, so unless you learn the rules first in order to break them, you don’t stand out at all.
thats a tenant of art, borrow and steal until you know how, and then go back and fuck it all up.
if you want to ’stand out’ and be ’successful’ that is…
or just pull food out of thin air or download it from the internet for free. or work at a 7-11….
Oh, and -girl-, I wonder what you thought of The Residents “Tweedles” album? You wanna talk about, “Where do you ‘guys’ really stand?”, this one was a little creepy EVEN FOR ME!!
September 2nd, 2009 at 3:56 am
Ok, you dummies,
Let’s try to do better this time.
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:34 am
For more on FAILURE, check out “Lost In LaMancha”!
Also, The Flaming Lips wrote a song called “The Sound Of Failure”!
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Like the “What so Proudly We Fail” episodes. T.Y.
September 3rd, 2009 at 7:21 am
So for all those even remotely interested, I am doing my first solo show at Glasgows famous (well famous in Glasgow) 13th Note. 20 mins of me, a guitar and an MP3 player. Tomorrow night.
Also, I have finished my Smoking Is Addictive album, which will be available as unique recycled packages at the gig and very soon online (hopefully). Crosley Bendix didn’t like the snippets he heard (see previous WAH threads) but maybe you will…..
It will be priced very reasonably and will be handmade by either myself or Mrs Phantom G.
Well, who said we had to write about Negativland?
September 3rd, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Are you “left” handed?
September 8th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
Failure wants to be your friend.
September 9th, 2009 at 2:49 am
It’s 9/9/9 you all!
September 9th, 2009 at 9:27 am
Well I failed…. to fail. Gig went alright, though will be a few changes next time. Sold a grand total of…………….TWO CD’s!!!!
Will be available from NO good stores very soon.
September 9th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
9/9/99 - the launch of the Sega Dreamcast 10 years ago. A noble failure.
Why does it matter? Because, for the first time, there was a mass market device that was relatively inexpensive that provided internet browsing. At a time when I couldn’t afford my own computer, this was the method by which I was able to be a full time member of the internet community. I could even use it to download MP3s, which I would then record into my MiniDisc player through the speaker jack.
The Dreamcast itself was in many ways the first modern gaming console was we see them today. Its ultimate failure, and the end of Sega as a gaming giant in the hardware space, also meant the end of an era. The entrance of Sony and Microsoft into that same space was motivated less by gaming, than by getting a device into people’s livings rooms through which they can funnel and sell all their other content and services.
September 10th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Negativland has stripped me of all emotions. I cannot believe in anything or anybody, not even Negativland themselves! I am eliminating my presence from the earth as soon as possible. Thank You.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:26 am
“Lighten up, Francis.”
September 12th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Re: 10
Negativland does not now, nor ever will be held to any legalistic responsibility in relation to anything real that may be suggested in WAH contributions by the unwashed unknown, victims of failure all, and yet unable to let go, now or in the future, so be it.
September 13th, 2009 at 10:35 am
re 10: watch this and calm down…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfnmCOUieLw&feature=fvst
September 13th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Question:
I have an old record by Negativland titled, “Gather Moss”. It has has a wall paper covered sleeve with a picture of a toilet in the woods which is donned with a green fuzzy toilet seat cover. Inside there is a photocopy of a a recipe for coffee cake that lists coffee as one of the ingredients.
I have always cherished this record and have always thought it was way ahead of its time.
I have only seen this record mentioned once in a record collector’s book. It was described that each cover was different and as being pretty rare and valuable. It is not listed anywhere on the internets that I can find.
Does anybody have any background on this fine piece of art?! It has always been my favorite record find of all time.
Thanks in advance!
Clifford
September 13th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
re 14: The record you speak of is the debut album self titled ‘Negativland’. Yes it is pretty rare, you can still pick up copies on ebay and there is one place in switzerland that does CD versions at a very reasonable price. That’s where I got mine. Good album isn’t it?
I would keep it rather than sell….
September 13th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
I got a copy of it off of ebay. Can’t remember the price point, but I really don’t care as it is an awesome album with an amazing cover (not just in effort but in commitment, that’s a LOT of covers to make by hand, but I guess their razor blade skills are pretty well honed).
It’s most definitely my favourite album in my collection for the sheer fact that the cover is handmade. We should get some kind of “post a picture of your LP” database going so everyone can see what everyone elses cover is like.
September 14th, 2009 at 4:03 am
re 16: not a bad idea. Will take a photo of mine later in the week and post it up somewhere.
September 14th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtyZMRJbLq8
September 14th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Is this where I can buy an Ebay T-shirt?
September 16th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
I fail to see any improvement in this current thread. I must be a global village idiot.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:03 am
There my not be much improvement, but also consider that it hasn’t gone to complete shit by now.
For what is basically an unmoderated message board, this place has been surprisingly free of racist douchbags, conspiracy theorists and spam-bots. If you want to see how quickly this kind of thing can go south, just check out the comments section of any online news site like CBC or YahooNews. Hell, you can even see it on porn sites that offer user comment sections.
The implication is that this is far too small an audience for any real dickwad to be bothered with. Or they just haven’t found us yet. But they will -in time, they will. Failure, after all, is imminent.
September 17th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
What exactly would constitute improvement? Do we expect a modern day Shakespeare to publish the next Romeo and Juliet in weekly installments on the Negativland board? It was always quite likely to be mostly posts about Negativlands current or old works. And the odd bit of randomness thrown in for good measure.
re 21: exactamundo. We will mourn the decline when the spambots find us…
September 17th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Randi and Jo-Bella (in weekly installments)
…riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.
Sir Tristram, violer d’amores, fr’over the short sea, had passen-core rearrived from North Armorica on this side the scraggy isthmus of Europe Minor to wielderfight his penisolate war: nor had topsawyer’s rocks by the stream Oconee exaggerated themselse to Laurens County’s gorgios while they went doublin their mumper all the time: nor avoice from afire bellowsed mishe mishe to tauftauf thuartpeatrick: not yet, though venissoon after, had a kidscad buttended a bland old isaac: not yet, though all’s fair in
vanessy, were sosie sesthers wroth with twone nathandjoe. Rot a peck of pa’s malt had Jhem or Shen brewed by arclight and rory end to the regginbrow was to be seen ringsome on the aquaface.
-to be continued
September 18th, 2009 at 6:56 am
I thank you from the bottom of my fart, finnius…
September 18th, 2009 at 8:40 am
Don’t tempt me to put up sections of MY unpublished novel on here!!!!!!
September 18th, 2009 at 10:24 am
Go on vincent. If you put it on here, then I suppose it is technically published!
September 18th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Just in the middle of last night’s OTE: For MORE-ON Christian FAILURE, check out Terry Jones’ “CRUSADES” series:
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=terry+jones+crusades&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
September 18th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
My second favourite Monty Python named Terry.
Reminded me of the Decomposing Composers bit a few OTE’s back during Music Is… cheered me up hearing that song again.
September 18th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
I don’t know about Gilliam; Didn’t like “Brothers Grimm” or “Tideland” all that much…. let’s hope this “Imaginarium” thing is gonna be half-way decent! I’m sure with Tom Waits as the devil, it should have some good moments……..
September 18th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
You know! I live far away from Berkley and am in no way involved in manufacuring sound or visual collages. I like many things about negativland and over the edge but not because I share an interest in the making of this stuff but because I just like the content. From what I read here, I assume this is an allien concept.
September 18th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Well, I DID make a ‘audio collage’ or two in my day, but that’s behind me now…. made my last ‘piece’ in ‘97; I was working in an old AM station in New Orleans, with old ‘cart machines’ & ‘reel-to-reel’s, when the guy that ran the place and I decided to try to make ‘loops’ the old fashioned way; a pencil and a loop of tape…. called the entire thing “Frank-n-Basie”: the station played nothing but standards….. had a ball. You should try ‘makin’ stuff’ at least ONCE, Hoosier…… It’s lots of fun!
September 18th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Vincent… I do “make stuff” eg. paintings & drawings… wish i had creative skills in audio but I don’t. I just like listening to Over The Edge and Negativland and enjoy the product. What they do has value outside of any inner circle of audiophiles. I just like the shit I hear.
September 19th, 2009 at 3:54 am
re 30: Fair enough mate. I don’t listen to Negativland primarily because I make the odd bit of audio collage, I’m the same as you - I quite like it.
Think those of us (myself anyway) posting details of our own ’stuff’ are working on the logical premise that maybe someone who likes negativland’s ’stuff’ might also like our own similar(ish) ’stuff’. And anyway, it’s nice to share, my mum always told me.
To be honest, the more technical aspects of the sounds etc I’m not that interested in, I like OTE because it has the ability to make me consider ideas, laugh and remind me of things I’d forgotten. And every now and again you will hear the Weatherman….
September 20th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
I was recently going through my Dr. Demento collection and decided to listen to the ‘animal’ themed shows (cats,dogs,ducks,etc.)…then I thought about it, thought about OTE, and started digging. I went through the past 15 years or so of OTE and didn’t seem to find any ‘animal’ themes.
I could’t find any. (does the UFO-Reptilians show count?) Now, normally I wouldn’t make suggestions to Don on his content, but it seems that this area has been untapped. Just a thought…
September 21st, 2009 at 1:23 am
There’s never been a show about sox either, unless…………………
…………..( cuts to 2 weeks later hwy 5 Bakersfield,ca ……HOTDOG HOTDOG gotchor ears on?? Channel 17 gotcha ears on boy, it’s the SOX Show starring me TYRONE TENDERFOOT!
An entire 10 minutes of me jamming you out while talking about nutin but sox. ALL KINDA SOX!! I aint gonna stop key’n up til I stop say’n SOX BABAY!!! I once bought a pair at a Jamacan flea market….ooooow I tell ya Sox for days!!
September 21st, 2009 at 3:04 pm
I think the difference is, that sox don’t have quite the same impact on popular culture. Consider Animal Planet, the Micheal Vick case, Steve Irwin, Stupid Pet Tricks, PETA, the pet chimp in Connecticut that went nuts and tore a woman’s face and hands off…
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:56 am
…animals in sox….
September 22nd, 2009 at 1:19 am
…or animal sock puppets!
September 22nd, 2009 at 6:15 am
errrrr…. OTE Live, It’s All in Your Head, shaving a monkey….
Very brief, but undoubtedly about animals…
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:21 am
Er…cats in bomber jackets?…..
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Welp, there you go Negativland.
An original idea; “cats in bomber jackets”.
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:35 pm
An infinitely less evil idea than bombers in cat jackets (those bastards hate our feline freedom).
September 24th, 2009 at 3:52 am
re 40 & 41: not THAT original….
http://sojo-market.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/t-shirts-10.jpg
September 25th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
RE 43: Touché, you are wise in the ways of geekdom.
September 26th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
re 43 That t-shirt ripped off my idea! bastards! i’ll see them in court!
September 27th, 2009 at 6:00 am
Oh Please Don’t Sue Us…
re 44: thanks.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
@46: Do you every say anything original, or do you just sub-reference everyone else’s work?
September 29th, 2009 at 12:17 am
Um, what, you mean like Sampling, Cut-Ups and Collage? Yes, how odd that such things should turn up on a Negativland message board…
September 29th, 2009 at 1:49 am
get off the computer.
get drunk
get laid
do some cool shi….hu uh oh what? No I’ll be off in a second mom.
September 29th, 2009 at 11:54 am
re 47: I do occasionally come up with original stuff, even on here from time to time.
Actually here’s a whole bunch of originals for you, if you can be bothered….
http://www.youtube.com/phantomguitarist01
From way back when I used to be in a band that wrote songs that didn’t contain samples….
September 29th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
No music/idea can be called original, it can be re-shaped, or re-packaged, it only matters whether you like it or not
October 1st, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Looks like the folks at The Onion have fairly used a similar idea that I heard somewhere before…
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/pepsi_to_cease_advertising?utm_source=b-section
October 1st, 2009 at 12:40 pm
only took them 12 years…
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Remember to listen or you might miss the failure!
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:21 pm
Rung pung pillow … but no armadillo ! read then dictated
October 4th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Was thinking the other day, a good sample to use during the current OTE would be the one used at the start of GNR’s Civil War (from Cold Hand Luke, possibly) “what we got here is failure to communicate”. Especially if used during one of those rubbish mobile phone calls.
October 5th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
News Flash: Download now, follow flashing instructions.
Disclaimer:
Failure results from both the reading and the writing of this message, regardless of comprehension.
October 5th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
…whatever happened to Deacon Shred Ralston and The Quantum Church? Yeah, I know it’s an old and obscure reference, but I’m still curious.
October 5th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
The Quantum Church has no need to pander to the full-on style council panel for what will happen in November.
whatever whatever a bazillion bazillion, and all eternities.
October 6th, 2009 at 12:16 am
Are there any sleazy rumors concerning Negativland/Over the Edge?
October 6th, 2009 at 7:45 am
The Weatherman and Pastor Dick have retired to live in the same house….
It’s up to the individual to see sleaze or otherwise in the above (perfectly factual) statement………
October 6th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
re 60 & 61
They are actually the same person. The weatherman is actually a prototype speech recognition & synthesis program from the late 70’s. Richard Lions was an intern at Texas Instruments when it was developed and later terminated in favor of the cheaper Speak and Spell circuit.
Thats why you’ll never see them at the same time; why do you think Richard has such an extensive assortment of ZZ Top wigs and beards? Pure showbiz!
October 7th, 2009 at 5:32 am
re 62
The really weird thing is that when you listen to the Weatherman, he does sound like a speech synthesis program. I’m sure I saw Dick Vaughn working in a chip shop…
October 7th, 2009 at 8:30 am
…… a MICRO-chip shop!
October 8th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Alleged inventor of the ‘foon’ says, “F*CK the Spork people!!” noting that “…the patent office are a bunch of C*NTS!!!”. “They railroaded me.”
October 8th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
“We are fresh out of molotov-cocktails….baby”
October 10th, 2009 at 1:00 am
So……how about those 49ers?
October 10th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
I prefer those ’69’s’!!
October 10th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
…er’s
October 11th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
hey guys am just trying to find my feet on the ground with my hom erecording. Just go to http://www.myspace.com/fcxristo and tell me hwta you think
October 13th, 2009 at 5:57 am
re 70, not my cup of tea mate, but well produced.
October 13th, 2009 at 7:30 am
http://couchtripper.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=5144
Good old British humour, courtesy of Viz Comic.
Enjoy
October 16th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Is crime legal yet? Minimal enumeration on the psychedelic credentials of the wanderer include this moment in the dance music theater at Lookout Injun Country Club: the cook, his phials, a deep toke at o dark thirty. Coldly stunned with the power of the alien image in which I become enmeshed. At the time I became very proficient at using a certain mind trick that many of my acquaintances had noticed to be very effective. They elected me as I volunteered to use this persuasive method of gently waving and mentioning a certain common word to carry an expensive stack of bright pink documents past a waiting horde of gangster bikers. I was suddenly part of a large multi-limbed and extremity-hinged and laden female freaka-zoidal torture-being upon a pedestal who commanded me to “take my take your knowledge and go” This knowledge was at the time that the overall idea of smoking from strange pipes was a bad idea for someone who had an infant son about whom he cared very much. The statue was in fact a guardian of youth baying the moral offender forward into the following encounter: From this horrified vision of a strange reality seen and understood to mean “Don’t do death-mimicking drugs; Ya’ ll have babies, fuck you, take your knowledge and go,” Then in my being I transitioned from this one-ness with the torture idol that I was seeing through the perceptions of my infant, experiencing things orally and in a different order and spectrum from normal adult perception, I transitioned from being ordered to take my knowledge and go to my shadow begging me not to reveal what I was about to be shown. I was sitting on this mountain top with my child and he was a little older, maybe about five and we were waiting for the impact of these two comets to destroy the earth and we could clearly see them approaching as the entire sky was already darkened with smoke and debris. The horizon was an open book with black pages tinged in lava and smouldering. The “deal” at the point was such:It was the G_d=UI birthday and “they” were going to destroy the universe as a suprise but they were going to refashion it as a gift, and the flesh of universal intelligence of humanity would of course be destroyed, but the refashioning would overjoy “Him=anthrosophos=666=PPP=etc”. So then they issued this assurance that all flesh of humanity would be recreated in an order according to how much of your personally chosen and stated holy essence you could recite or communicate accurately or truthfully. So we were sitting there and they are talking about me from a control room and I more or less overheard them explain how nouns work and they are like how’d he verb in here. So they say put him in code whatever, so then I’m by myself following this big rig trailer through the sky and it has all these lights going around on the outside of it with a message board scrolling through where the license plate would be and they are like “recite what you read until you can’t read anything anymore.” So “I am” genuinely scared for my life at what I have just seen and the test/sequence begins. So sitting there at about an hour before dawn in a quiet campground I start calling out loud “If you read the babble it will save your life,” The license plate message text kept going around and within half a minute I’m rapping out loud all by myself “If you read the babble it will save your life, if you read the babble it will save your life” and nearby relative observers began clapping and hooting along and we’re having this wierd jam and then the tractor trailer that I was flying behind through space turns back into the fried dough cart. I am not of any particularly enthusiastic persuasion. Rarely so the public display of affection of or for the sort. So it is highly incongruous for my character that I would “soulfully rap” these lyrics in the midst of the crowd at a sleepy hour. “If you read the babble it will save your life” for many bars, and with psychedelic gusto. And I was saying Bible. Suddenly the only thing left to say was “I don’t read the bible.” the dance music theater had emptied. We were camped in the handicapped section of the lookout so the athletic wheelchair racing dudes down the way really thought the sermon was on and were just beginning to get into it. So I had at least a dozen interested hipsters participating and grooving on a sixty second pre- dawn jam, and then when it was quickly and completely over I could not then suddenly explain the voyage and trial I had just endured. There was some disappointed murmuring from the crowd camped next door and what remained were trees through the cars twisting them off the ground and crushing them in their trunks and the idea that I had parked a very fancy racing car somewhere in the place and that it was fine. The “fuck you; take your knowledge and go” statue had however been all too menacing and personal with my suddenly infantile perceptions. The terror of the scenario, together with a looming combo was more than I could explain in a rap right then that went along with the bit that had just occurred. Momentarily I explained to my friend that I had been attempting to save the universe by willingly participating in my own extrication from the situation by reciting what the controllers had scrolled across the fried dough truck’s license plate…scripture is functionally illegible. Aware of “the” intent I reflexively add text. ” That’s the pre-judgemental belief in my delusions I learned from my shadow.” Once they get the nano-sized polymers on the sly they use the sustained frequency radiation of the hallucination transmitter to keep them going left and martial them into arts and crafty shapes. Moisture sticks to the particular particles individually tunably so, and light passing them provides coloration when seen from the ground. Sincere thanks for the awesome and intimidating display of the assassins, the peaceful archer, the decapitated one and the corpse in repose, with grieving distracted other. The bitch-folk that run the Leadership cult are typical TV Church members. Massive psychologists know when the mainstream population is most likely to be outside during any given episode of programming. On a glaring sabbath some accusing truant is likely to be out trying to convince church goers of the local badness of the missionary war machine. My swaggering martyr undertakes an inquisitive profusion of half legal wagers, at church manipulating her aerosol of appearance into being likewise inspired by similarly intervening television programming. The very idea of membership unbridles their avarice as they kick up their heels with reverent intolerance. The old urge to be correct as an in-crowd lets them do as they wish and turn their backs. If you happen by their festivity you must approach their behinds clad in expensive humble- pants, in which their candied-asses waggle a message of contentment that their eyes contradict. That they appear to be gathered there “first.” I’ve lived with many ghosts and lately I’m still young. Being the plant that I am I use them like dirt. My martyr assures you she bills Jihad by his other name. Some incisive native asks “Have you met this man?” Pressed for an answer, an invisible aggregate bounds out from the semblance of history, which is certainly convincin
October 16th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
http://nudges.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/advertisers-or-engineers-whose-ideas-would-lead-to-better-train-ride-between-london-and-paris/
October 16th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Re: 73
Am I the only one not interested in fiction anymore?
Why has fiction lost its attraction? Is it just me?
October 16th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
I remember back in my University days, someone making the point that after Finnegan’s Wake, there really wasn’t anywhere else for fiction to go.
I think the open question is, is the written word as attractive a medium for storytelling now that other options exist? The tools are available now that even a single individual can create a film or interactive program that can reach an audience more easily than the current process for submitting and publishing a novel.
Still, as illiterate as we often think of our culture as being, there are still tons of books being written, and tons of books being bought and read. Like any artform, it never really dies just because all avenues for innovation have dried up.
October 17th, 2009 at 6:02 am
re 73: Your lack of spacing etc made your yarn a touch hard to read. What I did manage to wade through seemed like a really bad trip. Try paragraphs, sometimes rules are there to make life easier for everybody.
re 76: I still prefer the written word as a means to tell a story. Movies are all good and well but for the best of novels the movie would need to be about 9 or 10 hours long, minimum. Fucked if I want to sit through a film that long, I wanted to kill Peter Jackson after the 2nd fade up at the end of LOTR3.
Then again, I still think you could sum up LOTR trilogy in about 20 mins. Never was a fan of THOSE books.
re 75: It may not be just you, but as you can see it is definitely not me. I read books all the time, and have a bookcase crammed full of novels and non fiction. Theres even a couple of Negativland books on my shelves….
October 17th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Don’t tempt me to put an except from my unpublished novel up here!!!!!!!
October 18th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
so, uh the new novel, hows that going for you??? you got a plot, main character gets into some trouble that gets resolved eventually, an unexpected twist???? hmmm hmm…. good luck with that…
October 18th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
You know, it WAS that bit from “Family Guy” back in ‘05 that got my rolling that ball in the first place!!!
October 19th, 2009 at 3:20 am
great minds vince, great minds………
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Here’s what happened the week, back in 1982, I spent with Rocky. ,
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:40 pm
The strangest things come up when you type your own name into youtube (hey man I was bored).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgJIJLy9C_8
Yes, I do share the exact same name as the guy in this clip…
October 23rd, 2009 at 3:13 am
testing
October 23rd, 2009 at 11:36 am
Well dear, it is a completed and published novel with an absolutely gorgeous cover of magnified cannabis. I composed and edited the entire thing in a sweeet acid stupor, and self-published through troybookmakers.com. I’m working on a distribution deal through my agent with the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors. The book is 200 pgs in 6″x9″, and is a meditation on global and personal power conundrums. I♥LSD&Techno, esp. NEGATIVLAND!!! Teslar Overhaul
another brief excerpt, sorry about the lack of conventional paragraphing but the book is a real time composition derived from the ingestion of over 2500 hits of swiss and californian acid, and is writ as genuine legend of the period.
My mother equates financial accomplishment with spiritual superiority. In her condescension anyone who hasn’t gotten as much money as her using banking and franchise warp interfaces needs her version of empty cryptic Leadership. I’ve decided to reveal that in my belief structure vitality of life at the end of the Mayan long count is spiritual superiority. My leadership mocks its own sacred cow. I’m here to steal the face of her exclusive savior. It might be more than who she says “He” is. The Name is insisted upon overmuch. My martyr calls it holy scripture but I call it old poetry. “He was no criminal but for your various felonies he distracted the eternal cops and got killed. They thought He was you so if you always remember what happened you’ll get away.”
This is a powerful position from which I don’t care. Please excuse my outrageous human pose. Nylon is different from natural rope. Nylon fibers are stronger and sharper than hemp fibers. Nylon doesn’t just chafe, it also saws. A taut nylon rope is an expedient hack saw. So let the nylon do the work. If it does not first cut my body free then the fallen leaves will expose me. Simian fingers drop a fruitless egg. The breeze settles. Late summer. Particles of titanium and gold take their places. The sun drags around parabolic moorings through darkness as morning. Distant metal flies climb interminably on long pointing puffed streaks that smear gauzily. If only Google’s guns can observe hunger and appreciate life and death in still oneness then eternity breathes open personably. ‘Till then all these hopes and dreams are for a life in a world that is going out of business, so they’ll be shot accordingly into a paper towel please.
Ahem. From a commanding outcrop in time I view history through TV! Ever higher climbs the remote for the next vantage of the future from the present. I’ve got places to go and shows to watch when I get there. I was born to watch my favorite show. In an odd continuum the present always refreshes itself relentlessly while the future comes and goes past and still there’s the future up a few channels. Eventually dirt gets you mad humble though your show is still on! You pass in reality from your mysterious genesis to a particular outlook.
October 24th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
re:85: Best of luck to you!
On another note: A Booper with no reverb, is no Booper to me!
The Booper sounded sad and lonely last Thurs/Fri.
October 24th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Poor Booper
As moses said to the egyptians, “Let my boopers go!”
October 25th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Finally a way to view Squant!:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_shrimp_dvds
October 26th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
re 88 Quote “Just why the mantis shrimp needs such a rarefied level of vision is unclear, although researchers suspect it is to do with food and sex.”
EVERYTHING is to do with food and sex.
October 26th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Well, don’t we ALL need a rarefied level of VISION!?!?!
October 27th, 2009 at 5:56 am
re 85: Fair play mate, good luck.
October 31st, 2009 at 2:29 pm
“UN-CLEAAAAAAAAANNNN!!!”
Haven’t heard that in ages!
Another fun Halloween OTE~!
Thanks.
October 31st, 2009 at 7:23 pm
An experiment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMrZ8N1DzqM
November 2nd, 2009 at 10:47 pm
God and Halloween seem appropriate.
November 3rd, 2009 at 8:30 am
Damn you negativland I still have not gotten my DVD! It does look awesome though and i can’t wait to watch it.
On another note my RCA mp3 player broke when i tried listening to the beatles, is this John Lennon’s way of screwing with the American Populous O_o
November 3rd, 2009 at 2:16 pm
JB, it IS a good DVD. Mine came quite quickly I seem to recall, all the way to sunny Glasgow, Scotland.
November 3rd, 2009 at 11:07 pm
In an effort to encourage this Negativ backyard blog to become appointment blogging for millions and millions of Americans all over this planet, I suggest using this bunch of pixels to expose new or unusual conceptual positioning with regard to culture and human perception.
Concerning the latter, you must have noticed as I have, that sound quality (The quality of the sound) used in all digital formats is mattering less and less, not more and more, as the digital era continues.
I believe this is because once sound reproduction reaches an “end” for human perception, anything beyond which is useless to our human senses as in the digital era, our mediums become more inclined to include a whole variety of Hi Fi levels in the content, mining anywhere in our audio past.
In digital media, we have begun to cease distinguishing the highest Hi Fi as an imperative in audio reproduction now that “perfection” is actually possible.
And cell phones have been instrumental in degrading our “acceptable” standards for sound reproduction.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Nobodies really hearing the music anymore, my friends just listen but they don’t hear it, that’s what bands like negativland are about
November 4th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Speaking of the DVD, I FINALLY hear the COMMENTARY on “At home With The Weatherman” yesterday! Who knew Dick scored DOPE?!?!?!
November 4th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Go Dick! lol that would explain alot
November 4th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
“Thinking NEGATIVELY can boost your memory, study finds.”
Read all about it:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091102/lf_nm_life/us_mood_memory
November 4th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
re 99, he always sounded pretty stoned to me, especially the Moribund Music of the 70’s stuff.
November 4th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
re 101: yes vincent, but failure is always imminent.
November 5th, 2009 at 8:29 am
Studies show that 99.9% of people will be shot point blank in the stamper. And will reach ULTIMATE FAILURE!!!
November 5th, 2009 at 11:54 am
The mega-corporations/media-conglomerates/crooked politicians (a.k.a. “Powers That Be”) want to make the sharing of “copyrighted material” more illegal and jail even more people. They even consider mash-ups and collages illegal. But consider this:
they never *once* properly define the word “copyright”! if someone wishes to share one’s own material with another, then, technically, it is still “copyrighted material”, even if it only contains the original ideas of that individual. According to the laws working up, it will be illegal to share any copyrighted material, rendering everything illegal, unless they change their semantics. See, they keep ASSUMING the definition of the phrase “sharing copyrighted material” automatically means material owned by mega-corporations. A more logical phrase (for what they are after) is the sharing of “corporate-owned” material (not simply “copyright”). It is a matter of semantics, and since these Powers-That-Be are working up more legalese cases against “file-sharers”, semantics is important in this case. Think of this: I seriously doubt they will argue in favor of an independent artist having his/her work, or even ideas, stolen by a major corporation, yet that happens frequently! Copyright law states that as soon as one puts an idea on paper or other physical form, it is “copyrighted”, with that individual owning the copyright (or “right to copy”). Independent thinkers, artists, musicians, filmmakers, writers, etc., however, have no recourse when it comes to huge corporations stealing their ideas (the copyrights of individuals). Independent individuals cannot fight if they do not have mega-millions-of-dollars to use in their legal defense. The elite powers-that-be only want more power and control, while removing more freedoms from the general public, thereby creating more of a slave-based society and economy.
November 5th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
re 105: wot ee sed….
November 5th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
How was radio done in the 90’s?
November 5th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Re: 105
Yes, it’s unbelievable that we are so deep (over three decades) into “found” source material reuses in ALL the arts, by now obviously a validated method to make new art by all artistic accounts, that the barrier of copyright laws still stand unchanged as if nothing has happened.
There is now a distinct disconnect between law and art, (illegal = desirable) and although lawsuits have seemed to diminish in recent years, we are all still subject to the vindictive whims of our multiple source owners anytime they care to invoke them.
We continue to plead for copyright reform within these new artistic conditions. Something simple like “Fair Use For Collage” added to copyright law would be a widely art-curing improvement all by itself.
Copyright law, itself, states the reason for having copyright laws is to ENCOURAGE the creation of new art. Well?
November 6th, 2009 at 8:33 am
re 108. It’s so damn hard to create new art, to create something new it has to be different than everything else! Sure it can be an original way of saying something else but it is still that something else, We are unable to create new things unless we quit dwelling on the old things, however, if we can start to let go of what we already know then we can start thinking outside of the box and not dwell on what we have been raised around, we have accepted many ideas and are unable to see anything else besides what we have been raised around. Realizing that is the first step to creation.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:55 am
It’s always been about money! ‘If a sample falls in the woods…’. The world now is such that you can do ANYTHING, and, if your lucky, someone will say, I like it! That’s if your lucky! I believe now . it’s a case of ‘If you ignore it, it will go away’! Just this year, I’ve gotten such much stuff for free, (and, thank BOB, too, since I don’t have the money I used to have) that the ‘industry’ is now nothing but a joke!
November 6th, 2009 at 11:57 am
re 109: I would argue that re-creating things need not be boring. Do you no longer derive pleasure from listening to Hendrix, Marley, Cobain, Burton(cliff), Bach, whatever?
I like outside the box, but there’s still plenty inside the box worth listening to, discovering, reviewing and renewing, sampling, mashing up or whatever. I would love to hear something brand new, but I think Crosley is right, Everything Has Been Done Before.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Sounds like an album title!
November 6th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
I was thinking that as I typed it. Hands off Negland, the title is my copyright!!!!
November 6th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
re 111: I was more talking about being original, there is not anything wrong with mashups or collages otherwise i would hate negativland (Speaking of which, SEND MY MOVIE ALREADY)
November 6th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
and not everything has been done, thats the kind of thinking we need to get rid of
November 6th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
I just received this in my email:
Secret Copyright Treaty Leaks, It’s Bad. Very Bad. 11/3/09. This is
regarding the internet chapter of the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade
Agreement, the Obama administration has refused to release the text
on “national security” grounds, but contents have leaked.
* That ISPs have to proactively police copyright on user-contributed
material. This means that it will be impossible to run a service like
Flickr or YouTube or Blogger, since hiring enough lawyers to ensure
that the mountain of material uploaded every second isn’t infringing
will exceed any hope of profitability.
* That ISPs have to cut off the Internet access of accused copyright
infringers or face liability. This means that your entire family
could be denied to the internet — and hence to civic participation,
health information, education, communications, and their means of
earning a living — if one member is accused of copyright
infringement, without access to a trial or counsel.
* That the whole world must adopt US-style “notice-and-takedown”
rules that require ISPs to remove any material that is accused —
again, without evidence or trial — of infringing copyright. This has
proved a disaster in the US and other countries, where it provides an
easy means of censoring material, just by accusing it of infringing
copyright.
* Mandatory prohibitions on breaking DRM, even if doing so for a
lawful purpose (e.g., to make a work available to disabled people;
for archival preservation; because you own the copyrighted work that
is locked up with DRM)
November 7th, 2009 at 7:40 am
re 116: that is indeed very very worrying. I sometimes feel that these big record labels etc are so out of touch with the general public that they don’t even realise what they do is alienating us more and eroding their profits further. They will end up destroying themselves if they are not careful.
It does seem strange to me that they have a problem with illegal downloading, when I am sure many who may or may not be downloading illegally also are quite likely to own a pretty extensive library of legitimate ‘product’. I truly do believe that the harm downloading does to profits is negligible. Otherwise these companies would have totally disappeared by now. They haven’t because people ARE STILL BUYING CD’S DVD’S ETC.
Downloading is so easily done and so accessible nowadays that if everyone was going to download rather than buy ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING, then sales of CD’s and DVD’s etc would be very very reduced. They’re not.
There is a recession going on in most parts of the world, people are buying less of everything, even clothes and food for God’s sake if there even was one. Is it that surprising that sales are falling slightly in what are essentially luxury items. If people are going hungry, surely it is not that strange that they are choosing not to buy the latest Beatles remasters or American Idol manufactured piss pop albums.
I’ll stop ranting now.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:48 am
@Jen:
First off, I KNOW that this is not your fault, Jen. I had been away from the site for some weeks (multiple personal tragedies) I cam back because I wanted to purchase a few more of the OTE shows, but thought I would catch up by trying to get some of the newer shows that I have missed. (the halloween show, art show, and a couple of the ‘fail’ shows).
I found it basically impossible to get the free shows tonight. They would cancel out after d/ling 8 megs, 30 megs, etc. I have been trying all nite, and still haven’t been able to get a single one (and it’s now almost 4am PST!)
I still remember the debacle that I had the first time I tried to order an old OTE show, and it happened to be around the time that the server decided to delete part of the catalog. Honestly, at this point, I am AFRAID to even try. I am curious as to whether or not people PAYING for shows are getting better results at downloading the shows.
Now, I’m really not bitching about the free shows…hell they are free, so I can’t complain, BUT I would like to know if things have been sorted out for those of us that actually PURCHASE older shows. I really don’t want to have to wait 3 weeks to get another order…or have my “7 tries” get wasted because the damn server is doing auto-timeouts after a minute or so.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:11 am
As to “illegal” downloading of DIGITAL MEDIA…it’s my opinion that all digital media should be free. Anything broadcast over the airwaves is free for ‘capture’ with a radio. I feel that in this modern age, that DIGITAL media be considered in the same vein. Digital media is transmitted virtually the same way that AM/FM was done in the old days.
If Artists and Big Business want to keep their products ‘contained and controlled’…perhaps a new mode of delivery should be created. Obviously, it should be apparent that downloading music, movies, programs, games, etc. is easy…and getting FASTER as our technology gets faster. It would be ludicrous to think that you can ‘put the genie back in the bottle’…get over it, its NOT going to happen.
I find it extremely humourous when people cry out about ‘theft’ or ‘people not getting paid’ or whatever the arguement may be at the moment. Obviously, the digital age lends itself, BY ITS OWN CREATION, to be fast, efficient, and easily transmitted and duplicated. Big Business CREATED digital media…forced us to accept it as the norm, and now whines because its easier and faster to copy than cassettes and LP’s?? HAHAHA!
And as for artists…well, if are trying to make a living with music, video, whatnot…perhaps YOU need to think about a new way to deliver the goods to your buyers. If you truly think that your digital creations will not be copied, you ARE delusional.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:56 am
“All property is theft”?…
November 9th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
The native american indians thought so…
November 9th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
This is Peter from Negativland - Mr. JB: you ordered a DVD from Seeland and have not received it yet? Please write me at peter@negativland.com, as I am showing no outstanding orders!
November 9th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
…but you are straying from the thought. This IS the digital age. We now have the ability to share information (whatever that entails, be it books, music, encyclopedic knowledge…whatever) via the internet on a worldwide basis. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I consider it a good thing to be able to share information globally, instantly. In this ‘Age of Information’ the general public is now able to access everything…from doctoral dissertations about the latest medical advances…to an endless onslaught of mindless YouTube vids. You take the good with the bad.
Should we go back to the dark ages, where information was kept hidden and secret, where only a fraction of the populace had the power that comes with information? People were kept illiterate and thus control was formed.
What I’m saying is that you can’t have it both ways. You can’t have a cheap, easily reproducible medium on which to create, and NOT have it easily reproducible. I myself DO download a lot of stuff, oh yes…but I DO support those that I WANT TO. Artists like Negativland, The Residents and Einstuerzende Neubauten get my money. And it goes to them DIRECTLY. If I were to buy something from some .mp3 site and download an album…how much of that goes to the artist? I’ll bet the answer is NONE or A PITTANCE.
Also, I find it funny that…according to those FBI warnings on store-bought dvd’s…you don’t even OWN that DVD. You are merely LEASING IT. Is that store-bought DVD “property”? And since it’s in YOUR HANDS, and paid for with YOUR money… don’t you “own” it? Can’t you do what you like with what you “own”. Are you going to tell me that YOU have never copied an LP, cassette, DVD, or videotape for a friend…EVER? If so, then you should go to jail…correct? What if EVERYONE that had ever copied anything went to jail. How many people would still be walking the streets today?
November 9th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
There are those I suspect dream of jailing the vast majority of humanity.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Zappa called it : “Total Criminalization”!
He ‘nailed it’ back in ‘79!
November 10th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
@Christian
Ah, but who would flip the Mcburgers, and tend the lawns, etc, etc. We couldn’t incarcerate the entire poverty/lower/middle class because there would be no WORKERS left…lol. Can’t run a machine without the cogs.
In my opinion, little infractions and minor deviations from accepted norms are allowed as a ‘venting’ mechanism. Frustrations about the poor quality of life need release, and if you can ‘get one over THE MAN’…you feel a bit better. It’s best to allow these little things and in this way keep the huddled masses quiescent, rather than grouping up and causing trouble…wanting ‘change’ and ‘fairness’ and ‘a new system’…or that dreaded “D” word…democracy
November 10th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Re 125: Patrick McGoohan has been quoted as saying “Freedom is a myth,” but I have no idea when he said it, if he did. Ever notice how rich people put bars over their windows and around their properties (and communities)? It’s as if when Certain Men Get Their Way they make themselves prettier, more comfortable prisons to live in.
Re 126: I don’t think humans are economically necessary any longer. Computers are better at trading stocks and corporations are just as capable of selling to one another. Now, if we could just convince the fundamentalist Capitalists that there is no Money…
November 11th, 2009 at 9:03 am
We need libertarianism to kick in, the government shouldn’t be doing anything besides delivering mail and fixing our roads.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
yeah, because who needs all those old and sick people anyway, right? Who needs police when you got a six shooter by your side? Ah, America, how I love you…
November 11th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
…the gun and the bible…
November 12th, 2009 at 10:18 am
time for chapter 8?
November 12th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Saw “Men Who Stare At Goats” last night……..
cute.
November 12th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
re 132 have read the book quite a while ago, some scary stuff in there. Is the film as much of a comedy as it would appear to be?
November 12th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Anything with george clooney in is scary
November 13th, 2009 at 8:15 am
re133: YES! Kevin Spacey’s ‘death touch’ is straight up Monty Python! However, having a ‘disorientated’ soldier shoot up an army camp smack in the middle of the movie is, how do you say, a little too close to recent events that this movie will wind up like “Big Trouble”….. anybody remember THAT film?
Released just days after 9/11, “Big Trouble” features a very funny scene in a airport where a bomb makes it through customs! Showing airport security to be a bunch of ‘low-paycheck’ earning slackers was NOT what the public wanted to see. Still, it’s a funny movie….. just like “Goats” is.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:18 am
re134: And yes, “Big Trouble” stars Tim Allen….. talk about ’scary’!
November 13th, 2009 at 8:55 am
The weatherman was right, failure is imminent.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:36 am
If you’re refering to these two movies, yes failure is/was imminent.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
re130….the gun and the bible…more dire consequences from these two than from the weatherman or people who stare at goats or Kevin Spacey or even Tim Allen…..It’s amazing that anyone still believes in Libertarianism….more and more I come to understand that life is but a joke ….and so am I….and so are you
November 14th, 2009 at 8:24 am
re139 I tend a swing more towards the Bill Hicks theory: “Life is a ride.”
November 14th, 2009 at 8:46 am
Re libertarianism: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/02/science/02free.html
November 15th, 2009 at 12:05 am
Has ‘Synth Britannia’ appeared on anyone’s radar here recently? It’s highly recommended. It up on YouTube in ten minute chunks, but I know it can be found on torrents as well.
A lot of really interesting interviews. I was especially taken with Richard H Kirk talking about the inspiration behind ‘Red Mecca’.
If only the CBC could do a ‘Synth Canadiana’. Whenever I think of that era, I’m reminded of the flood of Canadian new wave acts - The Spoons, Martha and the Muffins, Images In Vogue (leading to Skinny Puppy), Moev, Psyche, Rational Youth and more.
November 15th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Re 141 Thank you….I needed that
November 16th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
That is the best thing i have ever read in my entire life. We decide what happens in the next instant of our life.
November 17th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Did it take you two days to come up with that spin? Or did you just skim the article?
November 18th, 2009 at 8:36 am
Haven’t been on in awhile, I read the part about how they defined libertarian, and it makes more sense than the opposing argument that our path is decided for us.
November 18th, 2009 at 8:45 am
I was speaking in an ironical sense by the way.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Someone told me irony is dead, and I thought, “Great! Now how am I going to get the wrinkles out of my shirt?”
November 18th, 2009 at 10:27 am
My ironing board cover was wrinkled, I laughed at the irony then laughed again because irony has the word ‘iron’ in it….
November 18th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
That’s funny, almost the exact same thing happened with my sarcasming board cover.
November 18th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
I would love to live in a world where you could buy a board to do all your sarcasm for you.
Thinking about it, it would have been an ideal addition to a Douglas Adams novel.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:19 am
Regarding record labels destroying themselves,I work at a record store,and while some labels have gotten smarter(ie putting mp3 downloads or cd with vinyl releases)I see even more who are just blindly stumbling toward failure(overpricing,delays in release dates(this happens a lot more than you would expect),reissuing artists to the point that even die hard fans get burned out(do we really need yet another Elvis Costello reissue of This Years Model,or Bowies catalog?),even EMI recently said they were depending on rereleases of Bowies back catalog to save them financially)…this year the labels planned a vinyl saturday event,once a month on a saturday,very limited vinyl 45s and or lps would be issued…it went well for about a month,then it failed,until this past saturday when nothing came at all(it was to be a Beatles Abbey Road pack with a shirt and lp…it never materialized,and the plug was officially pulled on Vinyl Saturday,the industry admitting poor planning and ineptude on their part.
To top this off trying to keep a store open,ascap is breathing down our necks for us to pay for the occasional free instore performances we have,even when a band is not affiliated with ascap…
I think in the end the indie labels that have their shit together and a price structure that doesn’t scare off consumers will be the last ones standing…there will always be people who want to hold physical product in their hands…but more everyday who are weaned on the compressed sound of mp3s and think that they are good sound quality…
Rant off…thanks for listening.
November 19th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
A little more re libertarianism: http://www.slate.com/id/2233966/
And, for further amusement, more re politics in general:
November 19th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Oops!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182641,00.html
http://www.newsweek.com/id/218637
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200612/the-ideological-animal
http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/06_politic.html
http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/05/21/trauma-based-mind-control/
November 20th, 2009 at 8:24 am
I finally got “Our Favorite Things” after 3 weeks, its okay negativland, anyway that is one of the most disturbing things i have ever seen. I loved it. I could see how “normal people” wouldn’t like it however.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:39 am
Disturbing??
Someone made a more ‘relevant’ version of “The Bottom Line” on YouTube…..
but, I do admit, a tear comes to my eye during “Over The Hiccups”.
November 21st, 2009 at 8:45 am
re 155: Not sure if I mentioned on here before, but my 7 year old has liked over the hiccups for the past few years. There’s no way I could let her watch the video for it, though. She likes Gimme the Mermaid, which is about the only one I let her view.
She likes Four Fingers, which I have on a bootleg live DVD (More Than Live), I can’t let her watch that one, since Mark chops his fingers off during it…. Perhaps next year for that one.
November 21st, 2009 at 9:18 am
The Commentary for “Mermaid” is a special kind of ‘annoying’!
November 21st, 2009 at 11:57 am
NO ONE CAN STOP THE BEATLE MASH!
1) Someone made a ‘mash-album’ based on ’solo’ material. He’s got a cute story to go with it, too.
http://www.thebeatlesneverbrokeup.com/
2) Here’s a 10 minute track centered around the X-mas records:
http://www.tomteeley.com/beatles_mashup.php
cute
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:37 am
Gimme the mermaid is very well done, Over the hiccups I wouldn’t let suicidal teenagers watch, and how they connected the homicidal kid with Mashin’ of the christ i have no idea.
November 23rd, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Ayn Rand is frightening….I prefer Over the Hiccups!!
November 24th, 2009 at 10:30 am
I never said it was ‘frightening’….. it just made me cry.
But, then again, I’m a big PUSS!
I cried when Jesse is left in the box, in the middle of “Toy Story 2″, and I always cry when I listen to “You Don’t Even Live Here”!!
God, what a great track!
Thank you, Negativland!
November 24th, 2009 at 10:33 am
re:159: You were being funny, right?
November 25th, 2009 at 11:00 am
re 161: Try watching the first 20 mins of UP without crying.
I thought Jesse being left in the box was pretty amusing actually.
November 25th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
UP?? My wife says the same thing….. I felt like the way I felt when I was given one of those “Rainbow Bridge” cards: You know, when a cat or dog dies, and the vet hands you that card that says, “When you die, your dog/cat will BE THERE….. and he/she will RUN TO YOU, and LOVE YOU!”
Pheee-you! What kind of manipulative crap is THIS?, I thought, as I turned to the wife…. tears streaming down her face!
No, it’s expression of content-ness in Jessie face, not knowing she’s about to be ABANDONED that ‘hits’ me! Death is death!
“Do you realize, that everyone,
you know,
one day,
will die.”
Like I said, about “You Don’t Even Live Here”; I can’t tell if it’s what she’s saying that kills me, or, the fact that for years I thought it was just an up-tempo song with incomprehensible ‘megaphone’ noise behind it. Just another song to ‘bop’ your head to. And, THEN, actually LISTENING to her plight….. my guilt for not knowing the seriousness of the subject.
Still hits me.
November 26th, 2009 at 7:47 am
Yes, we all die. I fully accept that. Still gets me though, it’s the loss of love I think and the unfulfillment of dreams that does it more than the death. The scene at the hospital followed by the nursery turning into just another room hit me quite hard as well.
I agree with you on ‘You Don’t Even Live Here’ not sure how many times I listened to that one before I finally realised what she was going on about.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:19 am
Come home
November 29th, 2009 at 10:57 am
re 166: A lot to read there Amy, but have skimmed through and interesting stuff I must say.
Have bookmarked it for later.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:35 am
…and a billion infinities
November 30th, 2009 at 8:51 am
I believe religion was created partly to help human beings accept death, it is scary it truly is, I have had many deaths in my family and not a single one hasn’t changed me, as a person, as a living vessel, as a lover… a bit cheesy i realize but you get it.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:54 am
and by the way yes i did go back in time and post mine at a time before yours whatever whatever lol
November 30th, 2009 at 8:55 am
wait nevermind, i’m too tired to realize my own mistakes AH!!!
November 30th, 2009 at 9:45 am
sorry about all the death in your life…..
Here’s a distraction:
Just saw the British TV show “Spaced” on hulu this week:
pretty funny!
I recommend it!
November 30th, 2009 at 11:30 am
re 172: talk about co-incidence. I was watching my ‘Spaced’ DVD just this weekend. Have had it for ages. Great show.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:25 am
I don’t know about that one but a great tv show i started watching recently was ALF. Great show.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:25 am
Well, a friend of mine ‘forced’ “Extras” on me;
sent me the 12 eps. and said “Watch it!”
Now, I don’t think “The Office” is ‘all that’, and, while this one still has that whiff of “Office” on it…… it wasn’t awful.
The comedy of ‘embarrassment’ get a little old.
Covering every ‘don’t-say-that-in-front-of’ fill-in-the-blank can have it’s value, but…..
meh. I’s alright.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Ricky Gervais can only do one character and that is essentially Ricky Gervais.
Blunder is a good sketch show. Worth a watch. Wouldn’t ‘force’ it on anyone, but I recommend it.
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:35 am
whats the latest on “the buzz”, izz it gone now?
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:22 am
I think everyone should watch next weeks episode of the venture brothers, It’s got cthulhu in it!!! at least thats what i’m led to believe. Its on at 12:00am sunday
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:06 pm
re:178: Was gonna watch it anyway!
Go Team Venture!
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Is Negativland trying to deliberately mislead folks about the number of fans that have something to say? I don’t count “179 people”.
December 3rd, 2009 at 8:26 am
re 180: yeah good point, Apparently every post even under the same name is a unique person *laughs*, I wonder if Negativlands albums sync up with any movies??
December 3rd, 2009 at 9:25 am
Maybe they didn’t expect ‘crazies’ such as ourselves to be on here ALL THE TIME!
December 4th, 2009 at 6:10 am
Every time you come on here to post you are another distinct individual from the last time you posted, as you have something unique to say, different from last time. Also you may have matured (or IMmatured) since last time posting.
We all know Negativland have virtually NO fans. Would any of us want it any other way?
December 4th, 2009 at 8:31 am
Too true PhantomG, I keep trying to get people at my school to get into them but they are to freaked out, for instance i tried to let my friend linzy listne to what so proudly we fail part 2 and it cut it to the death of dick vaughan right when she started listening. She doesn’t like them now.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:11 am
http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2009/12/03/ottawa-pirate-radio-station.html
I think what made me smile most about this story is that there is actually some idealistic young kid out there who still dreams of running his own radio station -and in a way that radio hasn’t been since since he was alive, but in a way he knows that it SHOULD be done.
December 4th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
re 184 - I only ever managed to get my wife SLIGHTLY into Negland, have never tried with any friends. I just know they wouldn’t get it straight away (if I’m honest I didn’t) and would be unlikely to give the time required for it to finally click. The radio shows are probably not the best in-road. I’d go with Thigmotactic or Dispepsi as a starting point as they are the most commercial sounding (not that they are commercial but you know what I mean). I was replying to a post on another forum about best albums of the past decade, and the first to spring to mind was IAYHFM, which to me is the best album I’ve heard in a long LONG time. I don’t think many on the forum would have heard of Negativland and probably not a lot of them would like that album in particular, but the question was asked, so….
re 185: A great little story there, pity he got busted. I really don’t get the problem as far as copyright goes, surely hearing a song on the radio that you like still makes some folk seek it out and buy it?
On a completely unrelated note, Xmas is a time for giving so from around 13th or 14th December Phantom G will be giving all of the interweb some presents. Details will follow nearer the time.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Tell your online store not to resize my motherfucking browser. There’s no other possibility.
December 7th, 2009 at 8:22 am
CTHULHU FTAGHN! I saw Venture Bros. today and it was a good episode, bane to you who didn’t watch it.
December 7th, 2009 at 10:20 am
I’m glad there was at least ONE music reference:
A short but sweet ‘nod’ to Alien Sex Fiend!
December 8th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Good Hello,
OTE fan from way back who just stumbled onto the archives, and wow! This is a goldmine and absolutely well worth the donations per show.
If I may request a couple of shows to get bumped up the restoration ladder, The Sample Show (Aug. 94) is fantastic and I would love to replace my long-worn-out cassette copy, and Sugar and Spice (June 94) was on my to-do list for quite a while.
— CMC
December 9th, 2009 at 8:23 am
For those of you wii owners, GET SILENT HILL SHATTERED MEMORIES!!! Best game ever, really hard and fun adn it messes with your head something fierce.
December 9th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
re 191: Think I will get that game, loved the PS2 silent hills, with exception of The Room which was far far FAR too difficult.
December 9th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Bah Humbug. Not out here until Feb 2010…..
December 9th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Excuse me but we are also very interested in having u on our show to advertise your skills or promote your company. We air 5 nights a week and all episodes go directly to youtube Youtube.com/videocitytv & videocity.tv, and Open-Vision TV. You will also receive a DVD of your air-clip as well as an email attachment as well as being blasted in our newsletter. THERE IS NO BETTER EXPOSER OPPORTINITY THAN THIS ONE SO HOLLA!
Please email: videocitytv@aol.com
or call 646-353-9074
Leonard Croft
Managing A&R
TV EXPOSER REACHING 2 MILLION NEW YOURK CITY HOMES IN THE WORLD’S LARGEST TV MARKET
http://www.videocity.tv
http://www.Youtube.com/videocitytv
email: videocitytv@aol.com
NOW REACHING 2 MILLION HOMES
December 9th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Oh boy! Negativland’s chance at the big time!
December 10th, 2009 at 4:37 am
The first bit of proper spam. And so it begins….
December 10th, 2009 at 8:27 am
re: 192, well room for me wasn’t difficult, story was kinda stupid, TAKE A CROWBAR TO THE DOOR DAMMIT!
December 10th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
‘For those of you wii owners, GET SILENT HILL SHATTERED MEMORIES!!! Best game ever, really hard and fun adn it messes with your head something fierce.’
Not to turn this into the Penny Arcade forums, but this is the bit I would lime for truth. I didn’t actually find it super hard at all (apart from one chase sequence early on), but it is very different from a lot of other games out there, and is really well put together. I’m debating about how to play through the second time, since I went for honest answers and reactions the first time around (the psyche profile stuff is extremely neat, and in some respects quite accurate).
December 11th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
HOLY SMOKES!
Am I to believe there will be NO MORE NEGATIVLAND RECORDINGS?!?!?!!?
Am I hearing that right?
There will be NO MORE 40 to 80 minute ‘pieces’ by the group of people who call themselves Negativland??????
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Say it ain’t so,
December 12th, 2009 at 7:20 am
Oh well, there probably will be (an officially commercial disc version of “It’s All In Your Head FM” if nothing else.)
But really, aside from the forces of the art impulse, haven’t we done enough?
December 12th, 2009 at 9:06 am
Well, gosh ‘Negativland’, if that is, in fact, your real name,
You’re REALLY GOOD!
And, I can only assume that YOU LIKE DOING IT….
but, if you don’t , then you’ll permit me a bit of time to mourn the end of a nice flow of ‘art’…….
I understand, things come to an end, and, if that’s the end, it’ll be missed.
And, if ‘bugs enter butts’, and something else is created, I’ll be around to ‘check it out’!
Enjoy you’re retirement.
December 13th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Negativland, if it is done, then it is done. I will miss you, for one.
Will OTE continue? I’d like to think so. Have you got Suicide Man on standby to tell your heartbroken fans to kill themselves if they can’t get over news of your split? (they did it for Take That).
It’s been a great run, and some really fine albums to boot. No-one is getting any younger. You should all move in with the Weatherman and Dick Goodbody to the Negativland retirement home. Your quiz and cleaning needs will be adequately filled.
PG.
December 13th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
On the first day of xmas my true love gave to me….
A free mashup
http://members.lycos.co.uk/phantomg/
And one every day until xmas. Enjoy folks.
Merry Xmas!!!!!!!
December 14th, 2009 at 8:26 am
YAY MASHUPS!
December 15th, 2009 at 5:29 am
2nd mash up added. Stop me if I’m getting boring…
December 15th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
im a hobo and i need some food..so send some to a hobo shelter. or ill send my hobo ninja friends after you
December 15th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
im bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill youim bobo the hobo and im watchin you all eveery second… so send some food to me or ill send my hobo ninja friends to kill you
December 15th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Wow…okay i’m almost inclined to send this ninja food lol
December 15th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Re:200
As a fan of Commercialism, I would like to thank Negativland on it’s decision to to sell out to the baser instincts of….i guess…me…
and finally release a quality version of “It’s all in your head FM”.
As to the question of whether you’ve done enough, I would say that it’s a matter of perspective. From my perspective, I would always ask for more because as an American, I have no shame.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:09 am
My American mind goes two ways:
WAY ONE: BEST OF (or ‘history mix’)
and
WAY TWO: SOLO ALBUM (like I said before: Don, that “We’ll Be Right Back” really does KICK ASS!!)
One things for sure, first thing I’m gonna do, when I get some spare money, is get a couple more “Christianity Is Stupid” T-shirts!!
December 16th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
i blew up africa and iraq to stick a grenade up my own ass. that is all. ps im a retard
December 16th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
re 209: there is already a quality version of IAIYH FM. Think they mean another live album (vol 2.0 I believe).
I think a new OTE volume every year or so could keep output going well up to 2030 or something…
December 16th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
re207: I prefer “Hobo Chang-ba”!
December 18th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Didn’t expect a big ‘ol BEEFHEART OTE !
very nice.
December 18th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
….. Laurie Anderson, too?!?!?!
What fun.
December 19th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Oh, wow! Seeland’s putting out the NEW Evolution Control Committee CD?!?!
nicer, still!
December 20th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Looking forward to the new ECC album, loved Ritalin Ruckus.
In other news:
http://www.nme.com/news/rage-against-the-machine/48847
Anyone got opinions on this? I think it is a pointless exercise.
December 20th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Hey, Phantom,
I’d love to hear “Ritalin Ruckus”, but for some reason, can’t get access to the Free Artist site…..
could you sent it?
December 20th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Re 199 and 216: I’m obviously missing something. Where are you getting your information?
December 21st, 2009 at 7:38 am
re 218: http://www.fast-files.com/getfile.aspx?file=34371
You should find Ritalin Ruckus at the link above. I did have a version that was all one mix and also covers etc but I think that must be on the old PC. Everyone else should have a listen to this too, it’s some great mashup stuff.
Way better than mine…
December 21st, 2009 at 7:53 am
Sorry guys, ignore the above, file host site is utter rubbish….
Will try mega upload and post link forthwith…
December 21st, 2009 at 9:06 am
Cool… a perfect x-mas gift for moi. The heater in my house just died…. oddly, right at the same time Brittney Murphey did!
re219: I got the info straight from Mr. Mark G’s mouth. He played a bunch of new track on his radio show a couple of weeks ago.
http://evolution-control.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=5&Itemid=59
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:16 pm
is this thing on?
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:16 pm
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5J0548NG
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:18 pm
The above is the Ritalin Ruckus link as promised a couple of days ago. I tried posting on here a few times, but it wasn’t working, hence the 3 posts where one would do…..
Merry Xmas to all, and don’t forget to donate directly to the ECC site if you like what you hear…
December 23rd, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Thanks, Mr. Phantom,
And here’s a fond ‘good riddance’ to the year 2009: quite possibly one the crappiest years I can remember!
December 25th, 2009 at 5:44 am
OTE’s Christmas show:
Hey Don, thanks for making this stupid celebration bearable !
December 25th, 2009 at 9:09 am
I will listen in on Boxing Day via KPFA archive. Busy with the kids today.
December 25th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
That interview with John Waters about his secret love affair of The Chipmunks was hilarious!
December 30th, 2009 at 10:16 am
So, no new year show, a pity. Looking forward to IAYHFM vol 2.
January 2nd, 2010 at 12:12 am
Skewed, stylized dirt and the Safe Muffins Gross Cart is always changing size. Sorry about that, just checking and I know I probably don’t what I’m talking about. Oh, and by the way, see what’s new over on DUMB.
January 2nd, 2010 at 11:02 am
Will do!
January 2nd, 2010 at 11:02 am
I smell a WEATHERMAN SOLO ALBUM!!!!!
January 5th, 2010 at 7:13 am
5 more hours of coming out of the closet!
DON WILL JUST HAVE TO EAT RAISINS!!!!!
January 12th, 2010 at 9:28 am
Might I suggest, as one last hurrah :
Taking the “THERE IS NO GOD” mantra to the next level:
“THERE IS NO ART!”
Disc one: Visual Art
Disc two: Audio Art
I know Don believes that Art is Dead. With a nice ‘history mix’, he can prove it!
I perfect final nail in the Negativland ‘experiment’!
Don’t leave us with a whimper….. give us a BANG!!
Think about it,
your pal,
Vince.
January 12th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
That could be the one Vincent.
January 13th, 2010 at 10:20 am
Thanks, Phantom.
In non-related news, I’ve found an agent to ’shop around’ me book!
A fun little ‘romp’ about reincarnation & a ‘nut-case’ who tries to destroy Michelangelo’s Statue of David! My explanation/ theory of the death of art is in there, and uses Negativland as an example… once I feel the agent is ‘getting somewhere’. I’ll post it up here!
I know that this might not be the best time for a first time author to try and ‘hock his wares’, but, between the success of ‘teenage-vampires’ and a movie that’s on it’s way to becoming the highest grossing movie of all time, I get the feeling that ‘the rich’ are doing just fine! There’s got to be quite a few people NOT feeling the pinch, as most of us are!
January 13th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Good luck with that, Vince. I have been getting narratives and fairly strong song concepts in my dreams lately which is pretty weird since I rarely have lucid dreams at all. I’m going to commit them to paper and see how it goes.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Negativland is dying so the rest of us may live, like Jesus!
January 14th, 2010 at 8:05 am
Only a guy named ‘Christian’ could make such a post!! hehe
I think it’s a fake death, like when Bowie killed Ziggy Stardust.
January 14th, 2010 at 9:20 am
re:239:You call THIS living???
January 15th, 2010 at 8:51 am
Everybody knows Bowie didn’t kill Ziggy Stardust, New Age Rock did! XD
January 15th, 2010 at 7:03 pm
Well, if Negativland really is giving up I might as well give you all a farewell gift while this forum and the Laurel Communications drop are both still extant. I found the following among the same group of reels I found the “On Top of the World” recording(s):
http://drop.io/LaurelCommunications/asset/please-don-t-be-mad-at-my-organ-mp3
January 16th, 2010 at 1:09 am
Negativland isn’t giving up. But you probably won’t see us playing live in Your Town anymore. Time has marched over us. Of course, if we really DID quit on our 30th anniversary, that would be ritualistically appropriate, as there are 30 members of Negativland, 30 albums, 30 tracks on the new album, 30 days in quite a few months of the year…………
January 16th, 2010 at 7:38 am
Not forgetting the 30 fans….;)
January 16th, 2010 at 9:38 am
,,,,,,,,,, (spits coffee out of mouth)… Wha? New Album, you say?!?!?!
January 16th, 2010 at 9:42 am
ummmmmm, wait a minute: since when did Negativland care about anything being ‘ritualistically appropriate’?
January 16th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
I never understood where all the Negativland-is-over thing came from in the first place. The only thing I can figure is it came from the ‘in case you hadn’t noticed…’ remark on Over The Edge a month or so back, which struck me as less of a declaration of anything than a statement of the obvious. Negativland never stuck me as the sort of group who’s progress you would track by album releases.
They were ‘multimedia’ well before the term became hip (and then tired), and the fact that Over The Edge is still on the air, and the It’s All In Your Head FM live shows demonstrate that the various members were still willing to do stuff both individually and collectively.
30 years? This is also the 30 year anniversary of Severed Heads, which is being celebrated by what is likely to be their (or, HIS, rather) very last live performance this weekend. Viva Heads!
January 16th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
YOU MEAN I UPLOADED A 33.7 MEGABYTE MP3 FOR NOTHING!?!?
January 18th, 2010 at 8:32 am
Negativlamd
Alright, Let’s be prefunctly clear.
Yes, Negativland is claiming to be breaking up into solo projects, if not breakibng off into simultaneous retirement. But that’s not the end of any world we’re aware of. This actually frees up several channels for unknown new and improved versions of suspected art that doesn’t care about the constraints and compromises of commercial success, regardless of so-called “quality.”
Will we be remembered, if at all, by our studio recordings? Or, will we be called to the mind of the rare and increasingly distracted fan as a symbol of psychological defense against media reality creation? who can say?
But it’s not over yet. And by that we mean it’s probably over, let’s be clear about that. Just watch the value increase. Hang on to anything you’ve got and wait for the right moment.
January 18th, 2010 at 9:26 am
Well that’s that sorted then. Negativland is not not over probably definitely and also maybe. Clear as a bell.
Thanks
January 19th, 2010 at 8:43 am
Poor weatherman is getting old though, is it just me or is negativland widely unpopular with the female variety of humanistic masses of flesh? I know one or two women that like it, of course all the music that my fellow people listen to know sounds like crap and is the same thing over and over again, i guess stability is in.
January 19th, 2010 at 10:24 am
Yes, now that THAT’S cleared up, might I ask a question (or two):
WHY DID SST GIVE YOU A CONTRACT IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Was “Escape From Noise” made BEFORE the fire?
Had they heard it before they signed you?
I’m not asking to be sarcastic. I just figure there’s a story behind what (for me) is the closest the ’80’s got to an album as great as “We’re Only IN IT For The Money”/”Lumpy Gravy” (with a little bit of “The Who Sell Out” for good measure!).
There was an earlier post that said you can’t see progression in Negativland’s body of work, and I have to disagree. There’s quite a nice progression from the first three albums to “Escape”, and I was interested in the creative process …..
If you’re not interested in dredging up the past, I’ll understand.
January 19th, 2010 at 10:28 am
PS. My wife LOVES Negativland! She was with me at DC Space, back in ‘89, when I told her, “You’re gonna have to share my love of THIS BAND!”, and bought everything they made. She was also by my side when they came to Vegas, a few years back!
January 20th, 2010 at 5:38 am
Crosley Bendix here, and I just thought it to be necessary at this pointed position to make any attempt possible to keep The Negativland together as the culturally engaged group they’ve always been.
Often it’s the physical mechanics that underlie the operation of anything, including individual egos and the motivations that drive them.
Word on the in-house grapewine is that it’s property division that now prevents the total dissipation of one of the greatest sonic underground phenoms ever.
Who owns what? Now, on the other hand, a specific piece of equipment can be crucial to that first impression of someone’s first solo record after leaving an unknown group. But, since it’s been known since the Bible that everyone can’t have everything, maybe this property division dispute is a scolding sign from above that The Negativland is nothing if not together. Let’s hope so, anyway.
January 20th, 2010 at 9:29 am
Thanks for the news, Crosley.
And, might I add a rousing, “THIS YEAR!!”
January 20th, 2010 at 10:43 pm
I have set up this environment for further and deeper and realer timeishly transfering of ASCII dataism for interpretation and insinuedo of Negativ Landing and Universal Media InterWeb Net. It’s also a place that will, undoubtedly, “waste your time” while all the other opportunities for real social contact go under the fashion of “computer geek” for “Unabashed Awareness” of those who continue their stream of conscious meanderings in text form. No longer will you wonder “Where do these people hang out?” as this will be OUR final destination in social architecture beyond tactile embarrassments. Join us as you may.
Point your Internet Relay Chat client to:
irc.lycaeum.org and the channel #Negativ
Any other ACTUAL suggestions are open for discussion.
January 21st, 2010 at 5:22 am
I don’t have an IRC client, might get one now…
January 22nd, 2010 at 1:40 am
I read posts like 1-35 and gave up….got down here to the bottom…I have seen that some of these names have been posting for years on….that’s cool…..I have been listening to negativland for like 3 years now…and Yeah Crosley a couple postings ahead of me is right..any equipment I own is cool to use if somebody gives a shit…(very little audio equp. two numark usb turntables {nice kind} and a korg km202 and a yamaha 1996 mini disc 8-track (nicer than it sounds)..I have many many records that I have not heard I have a hard time trying to make these sort of “mashups” because I have not the time to listen to all of them (let alone read)…because I work…no wait….I got laid off today…fuck yeah…get at least 2 months of unemployment to work with….what would George Clinton do ? and not having met either “PhantomGuitarist” or “vincent cannata” would ladly watch a YouTube video of them making out ooh too skewed
January 22nd, 2010 at 9:24 am
In light of the Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission ruling, you guys are admitting defeat at just the right time. Everything is business now, or soon will be.
Little did the Libertarians know the new world order would be Capitalist Collectivism, and that they’d be instrumental in forging their own chains.
January 22nd, 2010 at 11:44 am
In light of this news (that America doesn’t have to PRETEND it’s ‘for the people’ anymore), thanks for “Beatle-ing” it up on the OTE last night.
January 22nd, 2010 at 3:11 pm
re 259, keep searching on youtube mate, you never know what you will find on there…..
re 260, To quote Damon Albarn:
America’s shot, she’s gone and done the lot, oh dear….
January 23rd, 2010 at 6:53 am
At 263 posts, perhaps there should be a Last Last Chapter….
January 24th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
As a conceptual leap never before tried on the Internet, we have decided to make this chapter the last chapter, meaning it will never end. Haven’t you ever wondered how long a page can be? Well, we have, and oh boy, now we’re gonna find out!
(Calm down, just jerk your sidebar scroll button to the bottom to quickly get to the new posts.) Otherwise, time is totally and forever continuous here, as it should be everywhere.
January 24th, 2010 at 11:12 pm
Just an inside tip on reality - By selfishly eliminating the constantly technical chore of creating ever new chapters, the founding execs of Negativland may be underhandely using this formatting ploy to further psychologically acclimate the audience to the coming demise of The Negativland. These creeps are slightly more concerned with assuaging the social/cultural shock and despair which becomes more and more inevitable as the final Negativland curtain calls and falls, replacing any semblance of joint creative output. Well, maybe some dope will come in time…
January 25th, 2010 at 8:36 am
Re 265: Or your just making it more complicated than it needs to be and that they are just busy with other stuff to worry about making us new chapters. Oh and speaking of failure i’ve got a fail story: I was driving to speedway to get coffee this morning and i pull into the turning lane to drive in, so i wait for the light to turn green and I try to turn and the car wouldn’t move! Needless to say I had failed on the spot.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:15 am
“Copywrite Criminals” finally play here last night. Mark got a total of ONE MNUTE air-time. I was also surprised that there was no Trade Mark G! AND, it was only LESS THAT AN HOUR LONG!
Oh, well. I guess it was more of a “Sampling 101″, than something for me.
January 27th, 2010 at 8:01 am
The CREEPS. The audience gives me the creeps. Why else does Negativland hardly ever email anyone back?? The National Cynical Network sure took its tole on Negativland, and for once.. THEY WERE RIGHT!
Let’s all Be a bit more dumb.
The simpler, more forgettable truths will always repeat themselves. Just when you thought you had witness everything…
JAM THE BOX
January 28th, 2010 at 9:21 pm
Now that Negativland is stopping production Dr. Linear Syntax and I can regurgitate and spin their material into it’s TRUE meaning and final destiny indefinitely without merit.
Just as long as they are willing to pay the webmaster.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Boy, I do love that “The Raiding Of The 20th Century” by DJ Food!
January 29th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
Someone’s having a bit of fun at our expense, I think, and I appreciate that.
It’s a bit like the time Adult Swim went through their first batch of mass cancellations, and fans went all nuts on their message boards. As a way of promoting the upcoming new season of Aqua Teen Hunger Force, they slipped in these little messages in the commercials like ‘Final Season’ and so forth, just to add a bit more fuel to the fire.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
I like to eat cheeseburgers.
January 30th, 2010 at 12:55 am
How did you know?
January 30th, 2010 at 2:12 am
Lamont Cranston…..
Is DEAD.
January 30th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
Of course, just cos we said we’re quitting doesn’t mean we actually are quitting. Much like just cos it says Negativland doesn’t mean we are Negativland.
January 30th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
It could actually be me….
January 30th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Which has always been one of the obvious flaws with this board, there’s a certain element of trust involved.
January 30th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Well, who’s we? Who runs the weekly radio program that inspired media interfacing? Who worked and evolved out of bedroom recording to complain about how shitty the concept of personal creative rights are when involved in mass-produced exploit? Who else had their fun, rode the tour Monarch and flew into the retiring, diminished enthusiasm? Who else cleans obsessively and loves the more simpler things in life? Who else takes care of this website?
I don’t know anyone else who can achieve THOSE kind of goals….
Or was that sarcasm?
January 30th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Fans of Over the Edge might enjoy the internet radio show, The Rivers Edge, hosted by Catfish Rivers, the bottom feeder with flow, takes you down deep below, to scrounge the sounds of the undergrounds for emerging sounds he hopes you love, just as much as he does…turn on and tune in! Saturdays 11 PM EST http://spfradio.yage.net/
January 31st, 2010 at 4:57 pm
re 279: I will listen to the show sometime in the next few days. Notice Merzbow in the track listings, gotta love that Noize.
February 1st, 2010 at 4:47 am
I’ve got access passes to “Dick” for $3.99.
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:34 am
I always thought “Dick” was just a way to show us that negativland has complete control and does not want us looking at the weatherman naked.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:50 am
Pretty cool Beatle thingy by Mark G, Wobbly, & Phieus Narko:
http://evolution-control.com/index.php/experiments/mp3s/40-mp3s/10000-beatlerape-live-big-city-orchestra-30th-anniversary-show
It’s like “Beyond The Valley Of A Day In The Life” Part 2!
February 5th, 2010 at 4:59 am
thanks for the sounds, noises and musics continuums. my tag is scope8 and i make sounds that most folk avoid.my noises made by me but only at the time i was making them. now on a cloud in a swedish server a couple of time zones away .not many samples noises like goats…. they roam. chewing uplobes. (giving milk?!) is it warner messing with the neg flow? time zones …. elusive. hope u like c**e as much as p**si something about a creative conmans?
February 7th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
Hi fellow talking monkeys,
This is just a OOGA OOGA! from my end on the archives. Please keep them growing. I miss some of the one’s on now defunct tapes, like Your Brain and You, Spooked, the one with the drunk/psychotic clown. Bring them and I will pay. In the meantime I’ll continue to plot the demise of these four dimensions from my private lobe here in angled space. Please email me when new old OTE’s come along. My listed email is open, but if tied up, you can always contact my Associated from Yuggoth for more details…
February 7th, 2010 at 11:50 pm
This just in. My Associates have developed a strange allergy. And though as talking monkey myself, I find the flavors of said fruit quite refreshing, not to mention its clockwork diuretic properties… my associates have put this fear of theirs in me. They have posted subliminally to me likely evidence of the fruits’ religion and collective organization– also disturbing hints of talking monkey/[redacted] fruit collaborations. My fungal associates have become wary of a mammal-flora axis to rival there long standing they drew up with our folks back in the James A. Garfield years. But I digress. suffice it to say that, whether or not these little red friends have insinuated themselves into the american harvest feast as a poultry condiment, they should not be trusted. A photograph [source redacted] of one of their emissaries can be viewed here. http://www.hamsterizer.com/Art/images/Items/MiGo01b.jpg
As can be immediately recognized, the mesmeric capacity of the red entities’ manifests itself most intensely toward those of impressionable minds, such as the two children shown here being groomed by the anthropomophized fruit to become sleeper operatives for the new mauve empire.
By all means, exercise caution around the fruit, however inertial they may seem.
I have already written too much. The fungal ones threaten me from the ever watchful angles. Their tendrils itch at the base of my skull.
Burn this communication now!
February 8th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
A little Bono-bashing, 21st Century style, for you and yours:
Sir Bono: the Knight Who Fled From His Own Debate
By DAVE MARSH
http://www.counterpunch.org/marsh03192009.html
February 8th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
‘Bono is no man of peace–he has yet to speak out against any war. Bono is part owner of Pandemic/Bioware, producers of Mercenaries 2, a video game which simulates an invasion of Venezuela.’
I enjoyed everything about that article, but this bit rang rather hollow. Are we still equating real violence with fictional violence? Really? Is everyone who sits down to play Modern Warfare giving tacit approval to war in the Middle East? I think the writer might be showing their age a bit (rather like when Ebert declared videogames-cannot-be-considered-art and kicked up that hornets nest).
February 8th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
Yeah……, but still… that’s quite a small ‘beef’..
Having a picture of yourself, walking & talking to ‘W’ doesn’t nesessarily make you evil, either….
but, there you go.
February 9th, 2010 at 4:47 am
Yeah video games don’t affect me at all. I’ve been playing China Town Wars for weeks now and I’ve not stolen any more cars than usual….
A great article nonetheless.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:55 am
It’s the “Helter Stupid” argument ….. you don’t learn how to play the guitar from “Rock Hero”, but there WILL be that small of kids that will put the game down, and want to learn how to play a REAL GUITAR!!!!!!
………NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
February 9th, 2010 at 9:09 am
I’m not affected by advertising either, and don’t believe anyone else is.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:05 am
I am…. it gets me angry. I know it’s not the response ‘they’ want, but it’s still a response.
February 9th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
re 291: That just brings to mind the Guitar Queero episode of South Park. And the easier, more addictive, futile Heroin Hero where you hit up whilst chasing a dragon that is always just that little bit out of reach. Genius.
February 9th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
Yes, that was funny….. but, I DO think about what have ‘influenced’ me, and….. I feel that music I LIKE has influenced me!
Therein was the joke of “Helter Stupid’, IMO; if all the good things about music made you act a certain way, you’ve proven the religious zealots right….
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
February 9th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
Re 293: You’ve gotta practice your dissociation. When commercials come on the TV, I sort of cease to exist. I usually can’t remember even a single product they’ve just advertised as soon as the program comes on again. It’s barely even controllable at this point.
See? No effect at all!
February 10th, 2010 at 12:04 am
Post some art, freaks.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:14 am
I thought the joke of Helter Stupid was the ending. Over-saturation of overlapping media hot-heads and their struggle for attention before investigating the truth. Even when some of our most dangerous illusionary visionaries have “seen it all.” In the end, it was all a big act and hardly a pinch from the crowd ever understood how it was all one big funny joke.
Too much art. Too much dada. But how did we use it?
—
“We don’t have enough data(dada)”
“That’s one of my problems today. Books, files, photographs. Newsreels by the million mile.”
“But I should think he’d be happy to have all this material.”
“But how’d he use it…”
“And yet it goes on and on and on..”
“Now I know too much and find it hard to make out any patterns. Just clatter and babble and get the feel and move on before I get buried in videotape.”
“It’s a monsterous joke.”
“This record you’re listening to now is one.”
—
“.. and you say ‘You see what I’m sayin?’ and they say ‘Oh, oh, we see what you’re sayin.’ And they still don’t see what you’re sayin’.” [Manson had obvious delusion, but a reflection on how the details always get missed because of lack of ethical credentials.]
“This god damn fucking thing is an act.. It’s all a fucking act.”
[And we close with Edward R. Murrow's famous ice breaker upon the buildup of fear.]
February 10th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
re 297@ Feel free GG.
February 11th, 2010 at 4:21 am
It is indeed All In Your Head, but what IS your head?
All Headites are headily advised to track down a copy of ‘The Kingdom of Infinite Space’ by Raymond Tallis. A great book about your head, and what it is to have one.
February 11th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
I just now notice (and perhaps I’m a dullard), but do you suppose that that’s the voice of Thurl Ravenscroft on No Business track Keep Rollin’?
Sure sounds like him. Don’t know why I didn’t notice that before. He was the voice of Tony Tiger, lots of Disney productions (the Ghost Host of Haunted Mansion) and so much more.
February 12th, 2010 at 11:27 am
Have the OVE downloads requiring $3.00 donation been discontinued? How do I get a refund or at least get ahold of someone to find out what is going on?
February 12th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Nice to hear this is still an argument going on about the Negativland ‘retirement’!
February 12th, 2010 at 9:55 pm
HAHAHA 303…. That’s too O’deour. The electronic re-evolution. Roland TB-Thisn’t, Is-HE?
February 17th, 2010 at 10:30 pm
ARG THE TRIP RECEPTACLE HOST PAGE BY RAY IS GONE! GONE!
February 21st, 2010 at 1:52 pm
no wonder negativland has few female fans. yall strike me as a bunch of penis-gazers. meanwhile:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty
February 21st, 2010 at 1:57 pm
oh and theres this too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking
(spose thats where yalls gets lots of content for your cherished free porn)
February 21st, 2010 at 4:45 pm
???
It seems odd to accuse us on one hand of being gay, and on the other to presume we’re into women being exploited on the internet.
Is there poverty and injustice in the world? There sure is. Has there ever been a time in human history where this hasn’t been the case? Is it your contention that until these inequities in human existence are remedied, there is no place for art? I’m afraid this argument ignores both why people create art in the first place, or why people appreciate it. Man (and, indeed, women) cannot live by bread alone.
Is all pornography based on exploitation? Is all human labor of any kind based on exploitation? There is no excuse for human slavery, but in the case of pornography, the relationships are more complex. I don’t think you could say to someone like Mika Tan, or others in the profession who have shown themselves to be articulate and forthcoming about what they do, that they are slaves and not be laughed at.
Given how much more vocal Negativland and the fan community have been about their position on religion, I’m surprised there hasn’t been more trolling on that end of the scale. You see, stuff like the role of art in society, or the nature of pornography, is stuff we can have an intelligent argument about. When it comes to religion -bring on the bat shit crazy, lady!
February 21st, 2010 at 4:51 pm
When I say ‘us’, I just mean in a general fan community sense, and not the band. When I re-read what I wrote, I realized I wasn’t exactly being clear. I’m just another nobody in the internet, and have nothing to do with Negativland, and nothing I’ve said is a reflection on what they say or believe. I’m only speaking for myself.
February 21st, 2010 at 5:40 pm
then look at how the sausage is made on that subject (porn), don’t assume that this has anything to do with anyone being gay (who’s to say I am not gay?) and form educated opinions from a separate line of thought after you reasearch the matters mentioned. no one needs to tell me how to think or feel about art, and none should tell you. its not a cult, is it?
February 21st, 2010 at 5:46 pm
btw - one example of one person who pretends to not be slightly used by the porn industry does not undo the whole subset of human trafficking and painful unjust sexism in the US that underlies that whole endeavor. if labor laws were a bit more just, and the distribution of social and economic power more levl, perhaps i could bother to argue this point.
but i dont give a shit about the laws or the first amendment on this subject, i give a shit about parity and fairness and exploitation of one subset at the hands of another. and until our culture embodies such things, i would not for a second pretend that this is a level playing field and that we have an “art” argument on our hands.
February 21st, 2010 at 5:51 pm
and what makes you think i am a troll who belives in god? or that i have no background on the subject with which to make an educated opinion based on personal experience?
thats why i made the penis-gazing comment. the world is a lot, lot, lot larger than the tired old assumption that one is anti sex when one challenges the status quo of males on this subject. its a giant frat party, and gay or straight, you are immediately in the frat at age, what, 10? 11?
and if negativland were to reject this underyling sexism, i might decide they were not status quo. but i have come to this decision as a result of observation, serious research, and personal experience. status quo! what worse insult could i conjure?
February 21st, 2010 at 6:00 pm
i suppose i should be more clear. i meant penis-gazing as in the true love that one man shares with his own dick at the personal expense, true human use cost or reduction of the other sex (or perhaps just at the expense of the object being used.)
if negativland wants to undermine the status quo, they should not be such sheeple on these subjects. it just ends up coming off like raging against the microwave (suburban angst).
February 21st, 2010 at 6:50 pm
also, dude, i know i don’t know you, but really? i honestly do have a good sense of humor, but this is just retarded:
“When contract star Kaylani Lei resigned as the host on the Me So Horny internet radio show on KSEX, Tan replaced her, alongside Annie Cruz.”
(this is not exploitive? did you see the fucking movie from which that line is referenced?)
February 21st, 2010 at 10:00 pm
This is getting good.
February 22nd, 2010 at 12:07 am
except that its moot, because if you think about it, no one really gives a very real shit nor have they ever about what women think on any of this. unless it already lines up with how the porn industrial complex says how women should act, want, think and fuck.
under the spreading chestnut tree
i sold you
and you sold me.
the bullet in the brain, winston finally loves big brother most of all.
btw - rupert murdoch and newscorp are one giant handjob of media, selling “our” sex. we dont even have sex anymore, we have porn. the internet turned this whole idea of creative commons and made it into McMedia. There’s your freedom, bought and sold back to you as “liberty”
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:55 am
oh and fellas, keep doing those mental kegstands while goldman sachs sucks ALL the remaining milk out of your shake.
while they had you jerking it to the truly “empowered” assjam 4, you weren’t paying attention, and they stole everything, including your erection for actual sex (oh, but they sell you the pills for that too. except you are most likely to use it for more of their McSex). these grifters have a reaming planned that will be the ATM of ATMS.
and thats my final word on the any of this.
February 22nd, 2010 at 12:13 pm
That’s unfortunate. This comment bored needs some shaking up.
A good read on this subject is the “About Men” section of Mike Lew’s “Victims No Longer.” It explains in detail how the Western traditional male gender role is the result of the physical and sexual abuse of boys. I’m sure there are volumes written about how the same is true of the Western traditional female gender role–since boys are beaten if we show weakness, as girls are beaten if you show strength, it’s only socially acceptable to discuss female victimization. Child abuse is, in fact, training (i.e. brainwashing) for economic and political oppression.
February 22nd, 2010 at 12:46 pm
well, now that you put it that way (intelligently) i can say that i fully agree with you. I am so used to being attacked for suggesting that partaking of orgasm “consumption” (as opposed to human being engagement) completely ties into our upbringing in violent cultures.
alice miller wrote about the german culture’s influence on the nazi party’s rise to power. child abuse was rampant, the patriarchal nightmare became the total dehumanization of human beings.
there is a lot of good work finally being written by men on this subject, including by a man named robert jensen and a documentary called “the price of pleasure” that goes step by step into the deepening issues surrounding commodifying disparity, some of the footage references chilean torture techniques that became porn movies, and i cant help but think that it influenced the torture used in abu grahib etc (anal rape, waterboarding, etc.)
i think that negativland and other types of art collectives have massive potential to re-commit to a movement that speaks to our mass dehumanization and help the cause of bettering our situation instead of just contributing to the continuing downward spiral. but they have demonstrated a more of a desire to honor the male need to defend using porn images, or made it somehow an inside joke (the vid of the anti porn bot at work) that does not get the complexity of this issue at all. therefore, it only makes it seem to the loser consumers of this crap, that a challenge to it is anti sex instead of anti fascist.
for those folks who use the file sharing sites mainly to get access to this stuff, the idea that fighting for a frontier of electronic freedom without regulation is potentially dangerous.
the unregulated freemarket and the unregulated sadism impulse encouraged in males is killing our planet. literally and figuratively.
thank you for taking me seriously. i am so fucking tired of it always creating a deeper rift between males and females (assuming you are male :), rather than leading to an honest/harsh discussion of how and why we ended up looking so goddamned over entertained and infantilized.
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:37 pm
Ah yes, Miller has long been one of my favorites. But I don’t want you to get me wrong–I’m 90% dehumanized myself, it’s just that I’m aware I’m an emotional cripple.
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:42 pm
well then, wake the fuck up. our whole entire planet is dying. and males in fact actually have the upper hand. remove it from your dick and pay attention.
done.
February 22nd, 2010 at 2:26 pm
I hope you understand that waking the fuck up can be a long, arduous, confusing and painful process, especially for those of us who have been lied to or brutalized from the start or for long periods. And that insulting such mentally ill people from a stance of moral self-righteousness makes one an agent of oppression and is only likely to cause defensive reactions. That’s how they (rich males, not all males) keep us at each others’ throats.
February 22nd, 2010 at 2:35 pm
And I don’t want you to misinterpret me–I’m not saying most males aren’t abusive. But if you’ve really read your Miller, you know that every single one of us who has been abused–male and female–inevitably develop abusive tendencies that must be struggled with to be overcome. A little boy does not have an upper hand over Margaret Thatcher.
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:01 pm
tell me about it. i won’t bother to list my background because you will immediately vomit, and i struggle with it each day just like you do. but as a woman, i have no choice as to whether or not i will survive (vicodin/vodka being the other option) in this man’s world, and i NEED allies from the male sex because without them, nothing will change. but if males only see me as 3 holes and two hands for orgasm use, essentially, not someone with hopes and dreams and a brain, then I am reduced to less than human. I simply refuse to accept that as the definition of me. i am just as valuable as man.
and vaginas are just as fun and compelling to play with as peniss are, and yes we could all make excuses for our limitations. but we literally have very few choices left. change or die.
change or die. i have vicodin/vodka or change. which do you recommend.
we need your help, not your excuses. and palin would be worse than thatcher, as she sees gays as worthy of death. we have to wake the fuck up, all of us.
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:02 pm
tell me about it. i won’t bother to list my background because you will immediately vomit, and i struggle with it each day just like you do. but as a woman, i have no choice as to whether or not i will survive (vicodin/vodka being the other option) in this man’s world, and i NEED allies from the male sex because without them, nothing will change. but if males only see me as 3 holes and two hands for orgasm use, essentially, not someone with hopes and dreams and a brain, then I am reduced to less than human. I simply refuse to accept that as the definition of me. i am just as valuable as man.
and vaginas are just as fun and compelling to play with as peniss are, and yes we could all make excuses for our limitations. but we literally have very few choices left. change or die.
change or die. i have vicodin/vodka as my exit strategy, or change. which do you recommend?
we need your help, not your excuses. and palin would be worse than thatcher, as she sees gays as worthy of death. we have to wake the fuck up, all of us.
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:18 pm
i didn’t mean for that to post twice. there is no “remove” for edits.
98% of the porn industry is hetero demand. the increasing demand and lessening of effect (as the addictive use diminishes the satiation from the repeated views and boredom factor) has driven porn directly into violence. not only has every male i have interacted with sexually in the last 5 years tried some stupid demeaning unfulfilling idea on me that they gleaned form porn, i wasnt even aware that was why the sex was so bad until i did my online research and looked at what was being looked at.
so not only am i abused at work (sexually and socially) but i am abused by lovers who dont bother to question their exposure damage.
you want to talk to someone who could choose mental illness, talk to me. but i have nowhere to go, no safety net to fall into should i decide to succumb. i want to see the humanity in males, but am given rare opportunity. your brief encouragement of my opinion immediately turned into “but I am not one of them that can care”… which was abusive as well.
so why not reflect on what makes us human, what makes us a community, what would actually help change this issue of divisive abuse, and work toward that? baiting me into sharing something and then making me the perpetrator of your further victimization is pointless.
Love,
three holes and two hands
February 22nd, 2010 at 6:45 pm
The Delusion Revolution: We’re on the Road to Extinction and in Denial
http://www.alternet.org/story/95126/
Our current way of life is unsustainable. We are the first species that will have to self-consciously impose limits on ourselves if we are to survive.
Change or die? I will leave it at that.
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:50 pm
I’m waiting for the general, world acceptance of abstaining from having a child. Especially to those cultures that say a large family is the only way to make it into their kingdom of ghod. There are too many people to fall into competing with eachother beyond what we can manage before turning calibalistic. Which we are.
I think people should masturbate as much as often and to know how to stop masturbating and using mental changes to help being more productive and less genital-focused.
There’s a lot of humor in mocking or just being in some sorty of exploitation of homosexuality, these days. It seems that many children are opening up to the open understanding of sexual preference when what is appropriate to display in public. But well.. these are children and are the ones who innocently change the rules, discretely.
The issues over porn are rather in a league of their own. I wonder how anyone can infiltrate that industry.. unless you work doing that sort of thing. If in case Human Trafficking is really that much of a porn-related thing. Some people use computers for extensions of what they do, like type. Or for gathering information. A lot more people are on the internet than have been, well exponentially back in time. Finding out how much the internet seems to lean on advertising and mainly advertising for porn sites seemed to dominate the net for too long. It seems like viral marketing is a large issue over how the many causes for dominance in society.
And whether people are using porn obsessively, then, well.. That’s yet another type of person who uses the same internet that many different types of people are using.
I think you’re doing something good for changing or promoting a great opportunity for you or a member of Negativland would like to use their ART to explore these topics. Having a strong voice on something rather densely topical… Once people reject their god and realize who controls everything and then go shoot the arrow with what’s really behind psychological, pataphysical as well as mass population control issues as an expense of their willingness to follow authrority.
There’s just too much here to discuss in one sitting.. I’ll probably have to clarify my writing later.
Peace
February 22nd, 2010 at 8:04 pm
the topic is endless, and art is endless. but pornography is not art. i have no problem with the naked human body or sex in all its manifestations. but sex is not porn/and porn should not be equated with sex. in my personal opinion i have to masturbate because males are losing the ability to connect and enjoy actual experiences with actual women.
i did have a child, which is why my worldview is so absolutely powerfully and painfully skewed toward asking people to pay attention. i wasn’t planning it, but i am a buddhist and couldnt kill. albeit i have no problem with anyone else making a different decision nor would i recommend the choice i made. the whole issue reminds me of the movie/book ‘the road’…. i don’t recommend having a child. the world cannot sustain it, and it is your heart walking around outside your body, literally physically painful.
there is great data and research being done on this subject. i highly recommend the price of pleasure (some of it on youtube) as the commodification of orgasm is a GIANT business and men are total dupes. no one is empowered in this environment except the people making money. its truly fucking sick (and i have a high tolerance for peoples kinks - but this is not kink, its advertising for a totalitarian state.
peace back.
michelle
February 22nd, 2010 at 8:21 pm
I totally agree about sex becoming less passionate and the “dating scene” (shudder) is more of a meat market and compliance to standards which have quickly crept into a mainstream stoner mentality of “Getting high and fucking” but totally missing the point about why you and your partner are a couple except that you do realize that you can’t live without each other. At least that’s how it feels. I’m frustrated because I hear this from a lot of women all the time and I’m always amazed at why I’m never a pick. Is the allure more of a passion for danger in order to gain access to a very selective and short period of time to get the message across? Or that rare chance to dig your hands in deep and change it all… But of course I always have to wonder why women don’t chose me? Is it because I wasn’t being aggressive enough? Or am I so mixed up that it feels like no one would even want to get near my psychoses… I’m just kind of questioning my thoughts at this point.
I will check out “price for pleasure” It has definitely has been part of many topics that I ponder based on its duality process and bifurcating results. But I’d like to find out more about who’s there to moderate the pumped up porn crowd who get attention with money instead of thoughts and words.
It’s a huge thing and I’d love to learn more about how to engage in changing long-due social fallacies.
February 22nd, 2010 at 9:07 pm
haha! I love when this woman asks “Why on the face?” and he takes it so blatantly obscure and then he had to kinda huff out his decision which is some mantra of all those key-terms that everyone has to know in order to work like robots.
And that really made me wonder “Why on the face?” (That should be the title of a project) I’ve never understood how obfuscated bizarre kink has gone to include a tradition from Japan turn into something that takes up 4 hours on a VHS tape. For something that seems so stupid and amplify it, EXPONENTIALLY, is the whole joke. “Well, since I jerk it every day, I’m gonna check this out for the laughs and then wank off to something else.” or whatever. I see no novelty there. And the porn industry seems, instantly, like some super redundant short scenario-based reality than what everyone experiences living a real life.
But anyway.. That was just another look at “porn” …. Lots of other things to consider.
February 22nd, 2010 at 10:04 pm
This is going back about a decade and a half ago, during Plunderpalooza (I had to look that one up, because I didn’t remember that particular detail). There was a screening of the film Sonic Outlaws, and Mark Hosler was the special guest.
I don’t remember if it was before or after the screening of the film, but he took a short Q&A session from those of us in the audience. You’ll recall this was around the time Dispepsi was released. Although I don’t think it had an official release at this time, it was also when Negativland had that cut up piece ‘OJ And His Personal Trainer Kill Ron And Nicole’ floating around.
Well, one of the audience members brought up the topic of this particular piece, and was clearly pretty agitated about it. It’s been too long to remember the specific words, but he pressed Mark with ‘isn’t this really disrespectful to the victims’, and ‘as an artist, don’t you feel you have a responsibility’, and that sort of thing. Mark, in his response, basically shrugged his shoulders and said, ‘I don’t really care about any of that stuff’. His position was basically, he is an artist and he’s going to do whatever he wants.
It was probably around this time, if not a little after, where he was involved with that debate series regarding art and copyright law, and he basically said the same thing. He recognizes that he on one extreme end of the scale, but in fact he really doesn’t care that much for any laws or regulations that limit what he can do as an artist (with specific reference to appropriating material from other artworks). I’m certain there are video and audio clips available to be found regarding these debates, which I’m fairly certain were held in Toronto as well.
Cut to a decade or so later, and here we are. Is the position that the internet, and flow of information and speech, needs to regulated going to be a position that Mark or Don or anyone else in the band likely to embrace?
Isn’t that a futile position to hold anyway? The Great Firewall of China isn’t much of a barrier for getting information in or out for those will even a small amount of savvy. The Iranian government, when they tried to shut down national internet access during the crackdown immediately after the stolen election, failed to keep the protesters from communicating with each other, and from those videos and images reaching the outside world.
Isn’t the free flow of information the best tool against fascism anyway? The master tools cannot be used to bring down the master’s house.
February 22nd, 2010 at 11:53 pm
I liked it better when you guys were just nerding out on negative-land trivia.
February 22nd, 2010 at 11:54 pm
did you ever get to a point where you though, gee, maybe i could form an opinion based on my own personal experience, and have that opinion counter that of your cult leader? cuz i think using your own noggin on certain subjects, not just the opinion of your favorite artist/cult?
i said regulation. lack of self-regulation is FUCKING KILLING OUR SPECIES. Now, i know mouth breathing is fashionable these days, and taking what you hear in the indie media as gospel the way we go about making our decisions about right and wrong, but there are literally more slaves on our planet now than ever before, and in short order, we could all become that. it is actually that simple.
freedom of information and fair and regulated usage laws go hand in hand. one without the other is total fucking panedmonium.
mark’s own issues with being empathically challenged probably stem from some abuse he suffered and internalized and is now acting out against the world at large. i dont take that as an excuse to perpetrate hurt on others. there is really no excuse for it, except cowardice.
to my mind, an answer like that is akin to an ostrich putting its head in the sand. there is not a whole lot else i can say. the world and its citizens are my concern, not some jack-offery hacked out “social critique” with no core intention except getting attention.
the rest is up to karmic law. thats the real bitch here, not me.
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:10 am
let me rephrase myself here, its hard to write in light grey on a white background:
did you ever get to a point where you though, gee, maybe i could form an opinion based on my own personal experience, and have that opinion counter that of your cult leader? cuz i think using your own noggin on certain subjects, not just the opinion of your favorite artist/cult might actually lead to some motivation toward an actual future for life on earth, not just more shoulder shrugging and self-absorption. its a lonely life when your only reply to these kind of moral conundrums are “im in it for me”….
and the nazi party had hecka sick graphics and little regard for the impact of their artwork too… negativland is no nazi party, but the “why think for yourself?” brownshirt issue starts to show up here a bit in your argument…
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:17 am
oh and mark, you wanna reply to this one, or should I?
“haha! I love when this woman asks “Why on the face?” and he takes it so blatantly obscure and then he had to kinda huff out his decision which is some mantra of all those key-terms that everyone has to know in order to work like robots.”
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:59 am
i won’t fuck with your idolatry anymore, gf,
remember: even the buddha said if you see me on the road, kill me.
never stop questioning the cruelty impulse, in yourself, in those you admire, in those you are angry with.
(humility was never popular with the indie rock dudes anyway and porn will never die it appears, until its pried out of the cold dead hand of the last male left on the planet)
good luck with the dating stuff, phalaris. most people are too stupid to be kind or responsible, and that includes women. but sometimes, yeah, you need to be humble and bold at the same time. look out for yourself, there are a ton of wolves in sheeps clothing, “looking out for number one” i suppose is “how we do it” nowadays.
buy buy
February 23rd, 2010 at 8:15 am
I wasn’t aware that Negativland were single-handedly responsible for the world’s problems, or for solving them. Or that a few dudes (I’m presuming most of us on here are male) on an obscure comment page will have the will or the power to save the world.
I hope you stick around though, girl, this board really could do with some shaking up.
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:23 am
well perhaps i will. im from the punk rock school of billy bragg. we are all now responsible. read that link to the post regarding the era of delusion. much of negativlands work has had to do with mass delusion, or perhaps perosnal delusion, but on some issues, they are so far behind the times its kind of fun for me to throw a molotov every now and again so see what lights.
thats not to say i am violent or encourage violence. raised in violence, i abhorr it. this world is not a vacuum, and our thoughts and creations ripple. should i raise my best creation with no morals and send her out in the world and say i dont care what comes of it, thats none of my business? or expose her to the worst of us and say “its just creation” and i have nothing to do with it once it leaves the house.
i read on ’shit my dad says’ page that you are only as good as the worst child you raised. if one ends up president and the other kills your mom, then you failed. i would like to see negativland go out in a blaze of glory, not just pfft out like a geezer status quo. why quit now. but to finally use their considerable brain power and take a bit more responsiblity for their words and deeds.
btw- i am an artist/musician/teacher/tech geek/activist. this board is certainly not the be all and end of all of my mission to wake us all the fuck up. but it said to write anything here, so i did. i obeyed the law. sorry to upend the apple cart about one’s precious porn, but that shit is scary, and in all truth men are clueless about the permanent miliarization scheme behind the mindfuck. i had a dumbass older brother, so perhaps i am permanently acting out my role as ballbusting little sister.
i saw him transform from murderous gacker to citizen of responsible contribution, some of it was just from my nagging him to stop playing with himself and take a look at the world around us. now hes contributing and avoiding addiciton.
the world needs all of us, and i need males to join the cause. we are divided, and more so everyday. the longer that lasts, the more the terrorists (the mafioso grifters in finance and government and industry) win.
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:22 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Yep, so, that happened, apparently.
It’s reassuring to know that, even on this little corner of the internet, you’ll find someone willing to compare someone else to a Nazi. That sort of rhetoric will certainly elevate the nature of the debate. I mean, I feel elevated. Don’t you?
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:43 pm
well hey, as many of us have learned from writing about glenn beck, its fun to write the word nazi.
and you need to demonstrate a little more self reflection in your words, or i wont need to throw those little word molotovs at you.
also, your argument was so half-assed, and my only tactic was to shake the stupor off of you… it was such an obvious one, could you not just see it coming before you wrote that total lapdance to mark/don’s slightly comatose inability to ever have a reason for anything they do except that its “art”? i have taught art for 15 years, and usually when someone says that, its because they are defending a shitty piece of art. i can list literally 100s of times i have heard that defense. its tired.
btw - didn’t they have hecka sick graphics? and that movie ‘triumph of the will’, didn’t that just go out into the world and have no impact whatsoever?
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:44 pm
My problem is that if we’re going to pin the “Pornographer” label to Negativland because they’ve never explicitly criticized porn and support an unregulated Internet, why not also pin the “Racist” label to them as well? They are all white, after all, and to my knowledge have sampled racists about as often as they’ve sampled pornography. There’s more evidence that they’re Communists. I certainly support them moving into deeper waters, as they have with “It’s All In Your Head,” “The Bottom Line,” and the “Trail of Feathers” and “Illumination” Over the Edges, but this debate seems a bit too reliant on ad hominem and argumentum ad ignorantiam. Or is there some interview in which one of them actually degended porn that I’m unaware of?
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:03 pm
I never said they were pornographers. My critique is over the lack of regulation of this kind of material and their ongoing participation in the argument for NO regulation. To my kind of person, that means they can eventually start to post anything they want (not negativland, but those who exploit the lack of regulation to pursue horripliating endeavors through porn).
Read Naomi Klein’s shock doctine and find out what happens when total deregulation of our systems (any kind, be they communication, transportation, financial) are unregulated. Not only do the outcomes NOT justify the means, the end results totalitarianism in its worst form.
If i were not white maybe i would have a reason to call them out for being irresponsible on that issue. But that does not seem like a fair battle for me to pick. I wonder if Negativland has more than 2-5 black fans? anyone know?
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:09 pm
goddammit, i cant see in this fucking stupid grey on white type window to check what im writing to make sure it makes sense.
degregulated markets take care of themselves, right? we are three steps from full frontal fascism due to that kind of thinking. the grifters dont give a shit about art and generally our types are the first to go, so im not for a second suggesting that negativland are creating that abhorrent content (except in the instance when it is hurting someone, to turn a blind eye and say too fucking bad is just immature - one should at least explore ones initial impulse to create hurtful stuff)… trust me, i have seen the shittiest artwork defended as if it were the fucking starry night (or whatever, just to pick a cliche)
we are at the point where some of us will change and survive, and some of us will not take notice of the impending need to change and will not make it. i would like to see most of us change so we can continue on and have better things to worry about than nuclear winter and wheat growing thin.
but thats just me. i guess being born a girl gives me an innate need to hope for a humane outcome for this species.
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:28 pm
the regulations on obscenity laws for what could be posted on the internet in terms of porn (and trust me, im a fan of lenny bruce and cuss more than he ever did so its not a prudish sensibility that has me bring this up) went down the toilet when bill clinton took over. no surprise their, im sure he grew up in the playboy penthouse fratclub and all pussy was good pussy to bubba.
from there, the content started to get more and more explicit. the problem is in part due to financial disparity between the parties (male/female) and the lack of financial opportunities for women. and they need to keep upping the ante for the consumers to keep coming back for more. so what we see now are more and more and more violent/torture based images. and that shit works like meth. it totally takes over and totally ruins.
regulation and fair use means not that you cant ask for permission and be granted it, nor that one should be sued for sampling, etc, but that you are in fact saying “no, asshole grifters, you cannot take advantage of this open window to put up picture of you fucking a 5 year old”.
if you think i am asking to argue about ignorance, think again. i am asking for social responsibility. and this country has no moral obligation to its citizenry nor do we ask that of one another. so what do we get: worst case scenario again and again.
and yes, there is data that the increases in the technology have allowed younger and younger audiences to be exposed to this material and it is beyond what you saw in hustler when you first whacked it (if thats your thing). its total mind numbing horrible death of empathy.
and when you get to that point in a culture… what’s next?
a big giant fat fucking war.
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:29 pm
You know, back on Write Anything Here (Chapter Four) one of Negativland asked for thoughts regarding the “current” failure of Capitalism with aims towards making a piece on the subject. That was in March of last year. I posted a couple of links (I have a whole folder of bookmarked articles regarding the crossovers between psychology and politics) but some of them got blocked as being spam! I hope they do do something on the subject.
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:36 pm
You people will love this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEX3_V-wz1I
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:42 pm
i wrote on that same premise for my high school final paper (to get a scholarship out of poverty and destitution to go to college) from that cliched book.
i got the writing scholarship and the art scholarship. over 150 years ago.
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:56 pm
one last note on the subject of sadism. both of my parents were sadistic. some of the abuse i suffered was borderline torture. i was exposed to porn as a way to make me more malleable by family members who used me for sex.
i grew up to find myself repeatedly in victim situations due to financial hardship. i have been used in the subject/object sense as an object and to be honest, most of those women you see in the videos and photos are faking liking it to get paid. or to be granted access to social strata they otherwise would not be allowed into.
it is very easy to forget what kind of boys club you live in if you have never lived outside of it.
from there, i have struggled to not only overcome sexual assault, but the childhood that prepared me to remain a victim and to remain an object and to remain someone who would be forever defined by man (via lover, father, boss, etc). I have been sexually harrassed at work more times than i can count on two hands. i have been subjected to sexism professionaly because rare is the male ego that can allow the critique of the power dynamic to shift beyond their vision of how that looks to them.
black people say they live in one world, and we white looking folks live in another. its the same concept.
this kind of stuff does hurt women. most if not all of them are abused by the industry. i know men like gentials, and but in fact, so do women. the difference is, in our culture, this material helps desensitize males not only to “intimacy” which is sex with love, but also the impulse not to require heirarchy, which does capitalism a ton of favors by stratifying us into half and half (not even counting skin color - just start there).
continue to ignore any/all of this and not only we women suffer, but men suffer too. do you think the majority of live captured german soldiers had regrets about not thinking more critically about their culture? I suspect they wished they had thought it through a little more before they just obediently signed on.
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:25 pm
It can also be hard to recognize what kind of boys club one lives in if one was beaten for being homosexual all throughout Catholic school.
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:14 pm
The saddest part of the internet ‘joke’ is: those who DO indulge in (and peddle) ‘internet nastiness’ CAN BE TRACED!!! The sad fact that they continue says something about our ‘gov’mint’! They are ALLOWED to continue.
I’m sure -girl- knows all about “The Franklin Scandal”, right?
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:16 pm
http://www.amazon.com/Franklin-Scandal-Story-Powerbrokers-Betrayal/dp/0977795357/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201251552&sr=8-1
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:20 pm
Now is the time, if there ever was a time, for this Last Chapter nonsense to be cancelled. This page is WAY too long now, and is in real danger of dragging the whole internet down with it’s weight (in fact maybe that’s the plan, no dudes whacking off when the web implodes).
Girl, reading your posts, I have just the one question: Do you happen to have read any David Icke? Some of the statements you make just seem awful familiar to me. There is a case to be made that The World Is Fucked, and of course we all have a responsibility in the whole Fuckedness. I think that most Negativland fans are probably more ’switched on’ to this than most. Anyone who has listened to It’s All In Your Head has surely taken in some of the issues explored within there.
I don’t really see the problem with the ‘Hey it’s art and it may offend but it’s not my problem’ defence. I mean, obviously there is a line to be drawn somewhere, and for me torture, incest and paedophilia are all on the other side of that line. I don’t see any defence for such material. I also don’t really believe that Negativland’s Unregulated Internet includes such things. Surely it’s fairly reasonable to assume some sense of basic morality?
I haven’t taken that much time to formulate an argument here, I’m pretty much just throwing some thoughts out there, and I always leave room in my opinion for change should I be proven wrong or be shown something in a new light. That is the very definition of an open mind, which I try to have. It’s difficult when education, employment, news media and even quite a lot of the time leisure media, all actively try to produce closed minds. They’re so much more malleable after all. You only feel good about yourself when you buy this, or own that or fantasise about the other……
This board has been going very stale lately, it’s great to see some real debate on here.
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:52 pm
well, christian, like my army of gay husbands (guess where i live) you don’t fit into that hetero club. there is another boys club for gay men that i hear all the time about that is just as fucked up as the one that torments women that you probably (hopefully) want nothing to do with. again, its sadism and dissociation, and the cruelty impulse that im worried about here - that is statistically much more common in males. and the club i was talking about was the hetero one, which is awful and abusive to males too, no doubt. and im sorry you had that happen.
yes i do know about the franklin scandal, did you hear about this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35526479/ns/us_news-weird_news/
more background - i grew up surrounded by organized crime, some in my family, most of it in the drug/sex circuit in las vegas. there were occasions when law enforcement and regulation actually did make things safer. for example. the legalization of prostitution made it so that stopped finding all those dead hooker in the desert at a certain point. just having a fucking security guard at the desk and a help call button under the mattress still saves countless thousands of lives.
can you see where i am going with my argument? if people cannot take back power and insist on ethics and if they won’t self-regulate, then it is the job of our organized, tax paid reglators to make sure they do.
also, you know the argument for small banks, local food, and bringing the stuff back from the hands of the larger industrial complex and back to the community. what if i just suggest you use your good ole imagination or your beloved to get off? what if i suggest that fetishizing anything makes it kind of an addiction, and that addiction keeps us in harness?
what if i suggest that the people who told me that those old disney princess movies i was letting my daughter watch would warp her into a little princess wannabe were RIGHT?
February 23rd, 2010 at 4:00 pm
pg
no i dont know about david icke i formed this part of my opinion from recent personal experience. i recently found out that someone had taken naked pictures of me years ago without my awareness. coming out of my background and having been abused, i was not only disgusted to find out that he had been whacking it all those years with them, but that he had shared them with roommates. not only was the feeling very much akin to violation and rape, but that feeling also felt like “damn, if I’d known i was going to be in porn you would have had to pay me”.
this person is an ex, someone i thought had a heart, and also someone who put me in a position that was humiliating. so now do i not only feel the pain of ever person who was trafficked against thier will, but I dont’ take for a second the excuse that ‘ist just art mam, dont mind the severed heads”
and the reason why is say that is because i dissociate and come up with memories from some pretty sick things that happened that i would like to make into art. but i stop myself. i know once it exists in the world it is going to be open to interpretation, objectification, and that i will inadvertently hurt people who dont deserve it. the innocent. the hooker who’s body i did happen to come across. she deserves my mercy and love and not my more dehumanizing, fetishizing, and objectification.
thats my gut feeling, and you wont change it. dont even bother. i dont agree and i wont agree. i have been on both sides and i argue for us to be human beings instead of egocentric.
on the other hand, i am a giant fan of james baldwin, who endlessly shook up the status quo by poking sharp sticks into
THE MAN, not other men.
February 23rd, 2010 at 4:16 pm
james baldwin poked soft things into other consenting men, something i am in support of
and enjoy myself (soft poking by men).
Baldwin was willing to talk about it openly, blatantly, and still DEMAND civil rights legislation, in a time and place that didn’t want to hear and for much of his life deemed him on the other side of the argument. He still looks pretty right on to me.
February 23rd, 2010 at 4:23 pm
oh and the guy who took the photos (i still dont know if i was roofied or if just drank too much wine before going to sleep) used them in his art. he showed me that art, and thought it would make me feel good.
so im passed out, he does his whatever with my sleeping naked body, makes art out of it, photos me, and then goes on to show it to me like im going to be proud.
jesus fucking christ theres my argument in a nutshell. you cant counter it, you wont counter it, and IM JUST as fucking stubborn on this issue as anyone you will ever encounter who tries to defend their porn.
now im off to whiten my teeth and clean my toilet bowl with the amazing new product i just bought off the internet.
buy buy
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Are you suggesting that a hypothetical male who has been sexually abused as a child and is disturbed by the torture debate in the news should be forbidden from describing similar things in a work of fiction because someone might find it triggering or someone else might find it arousing?
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:19 pm
not for a second. the written word exploits no human bodies except the one doing the writing, and I assume that relationship is consensual.
if you were to do a photo essay or video demonstrating sexual torture and post it on the internet and it used actual boys or men young enough to look like boys, i would absolutely accuse you of being sick and irresponsible, and totally self-indulgent.
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:24 pm
I should say GRAPHIC SEXUAL TORTURE AS IN THE KIND USED IN COMMON HETERO PORNOGRAPHY.
I give up, yall don’t want to get it.
change or die
buy buy buy
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Jay Leno will be back on his old time slot soon, oddly enough, I’m predicting it will REVOLUTIONIZE The very way we LIVE our lives!! And now it’s raining.
Now do I fit in?
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Someone apparently doesn’t like to have the molotov cocktails she throws examined.
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:54 pm
you didn’t read anything i said and you have obviously never read james baldwin. tons of homoerotic stuff in there. you might like it.
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:00 pm
i recommended any number of resources outlining my perspective. you parsed what i wrote to suit your agenda. its really silly to be that dense and victim-identified when its all sitting there on the INTERNET waiting to be READ.
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:00 pm
You’re right that I’ve never read Baldwin.
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:21 pm
ok, well, hes fucking fantastic.
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:53 pm
Anyone who know my history on this board knows that I suckle at the intellectual teat of Tom Ellard, not Mark Hosler, but that’s neither here nor there.
It has been roughly 30 years since the post-punk era, and the main head of Severed Heads was asked to give a presentation recently on post-punk, and basically what it all meant.
http://tomellard.com/circa79.html
http://tomellard.com/Whyhere.html
This are the slides and speaker notes from that event. I thought it was worth passing along, since it ties into both our earlier conversations about the evolution and end of music, as well as some of the material on the more recent All Art Radio episodes of Over The Edge.
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:17 pm
I am on a really slow connection here, but I fully intend to check out all the links posted during this discussion. The David Icke thing was more about the ’something beautiful is coming’ stuff, but I think that it actually says more about where my head is at than where yours may be, actual girl.
People=Shit, as many many have suggested over time (Slipknot is the one in my head, though they surely can’t have been the first) and I am pretty disgusted by your treatment described above. Not much you can say to defend such ‘art’. I can’t work out whether or not you are in any way a Negativland fan, or if you just float around cyberspace looking for a message board to ’spread the word’ on. Not that it really matters, I suppose.
Keep chucking those cocktails, and we might pick some up and lob them back, or we may just try to sample them and use them for our own art….
February 24th, 2010 at 12:50 am
It will be a great day for America, incidentally, when we begin to eat bread again, instead of the blasphemous and tasteless foam rubber that we have substituted for it. And I am not being frivolous here, either. Something very sinister happens to the people of a country when they begin to distrust their own reactions as deeply as they do here, and become as joyless as they have become.
James Baldwin, The Fire Next Time (1963)
February 24th, 2010 at 4:47 am
Except the wheat gluten.. Avoid grains, the cheap food for the masses.
February 24th, 2010 at 4:47 am
Re Disney princess films. My daughter also watches, and indeed enjoys those films, and has a thing about the colour pink. I try to offset this with more masculine type toys such as Dr Who figures etc, as I figure there is something not quite right about a girl wanting to be so ‘girly’.
But hey, she laughed so hard at Gimme The Mermaid, and had no problem with what was being done with Ariel on there, so it may all be OK. Perhaps my teachings of having her own mind and not blindly following the herd have sunk in all too well. She HATES High School Musical which puts her in the minority as far as her peers go.
I did used to worry about Disney’s influence on kids, but as long as parents teach other stuff then I reckon some mindless fairy tales can’t hurt all that much.
February 24th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
i think that was a metaphorical reference to bread, and james baldwin was living in france for a while before he came back to america to critique the shit out of it. james baldwin was raised in dire poverty, so he knew of those kinds of things. liquor store dinners…
disney. its not evil, but media does code things into our brains. i didn’t have much interest in tv as a kid (it looked to fake to me) so i am very liberal about it with her, as i didn’t seem to think it would have much effect. but the story about a prince saving her, well, we have had to have long chats about that so she knows its going to be up to her to save her. and yes, there are many other ways to discuss and correct impressions on kids. but i have noticed that as people get older they are less likely to be open to feedback and thus the idea of ‘change’ just strikes them as impossible. so feeding more white bread down their gullets just makes them fatter.
disney and bread are not evil, ignorance kills.
I strongly encourage everyone to watch the price of pleasure. its truly undermining the long held standard of liberal thought that women like being in porn and that its undoing our puritanical sex issues. having been raised in the opposite of a puritanical environment, and knowing what this looks like from “behind” so to speak, it really does make the point that the porn industry and the inherent hetero sexism is vile. vile beyond words as you get further in.
and if you watch it and disagree with me, stay at least 100 feet from me at all times and never make eye contact and if you look at my child i might pray that a bird plucks your eyeballs out.
i have a funny story about gimme the mermaid. but its too personal to share.
cheers
girl
February 24th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
One must say Yes to life, and embrace it wherever it is found - and it is found in terrible places… For nothing is fixed, forever and forever, it is not fixed; the earth is always shifting, the light is always changing, the sea does not cease to grind down rock. Generations do not cease to be born, and we are responsible to them because we are the only witnesses they have. The sea rises, the light fails, lovers cling to each other, and children cling to us. The moment we cease to hold each other, the moment we break faith with one another, the sea engulfs us and the light goes out.
James Baldwin (1924 - 1987)
Source: Fumbling Toward Divinity: The Adoption Scriptures
Read more: http://www.gaia.com/quotes/James_Baldwin#ixzz0gTbEyLwW
February 25th, 2010 at 9:19 am
Might I also suggest to -girl- the ‘encyclopedic’ forum site, RIGOROUS INTUITION:
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/index.php
Tons of information!
February 25th, 2010 at 11:25 am
thanks vc, i have used that site extensively for research, much of it credible. i limit my exposure to lately, because it reduces my buddhist intentions to nothing and makes me want to see the herd drastically thinned.
February 25th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Ah yes, feeling the herd needs to be thinned (perhaps including myself) is part of the way I’m dehumanized. I can relate.
And you’re right, that story of getting photographed sleeping nude and it being used as porn first and then art without permission does make me want to throw up in my mouth a little. Not nearly as bad, but once a group of teenagers in a car stopped and photographed me walking home from school and then drove off. Just par for the course–myself being such an obvious freak–I thought at the time.
February 25th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
the word for a puke burp is purp.
February 25th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Perps make me purp.
February 25th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
yep.
this is the change or die strategy i mentioned:
http://www.energybulletin.net/node/47157
February 25th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
also, this book:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_(book)
February 25th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
vc, i had forgotten this thread on disney. this was sent to me when my daughter was little… the person warning of the disney design:
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=22619
February 25th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
I blame Reagan and Thatcher. We are living with all the problems inherent in their way of running the world. Think of yourself, be selfish, make money, buy things, fuck everyone else. Get rich or buy trying.
February 25th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
started earlier, but became an acceptable social institution then
…
February 26th, 2010 at 11:19 am
I’m not old enough to remember life pre-Thatcher. This is the only world I’ve known, but I can’t and won’t accept it as the only world there CAN EVER BE.
February 26th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
thanks for saying that, its very heartening.
February 28th, 2010 at 12:48 am
part one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t97Um-AaAM&feature=related
part two
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uj6tQxmjQw
part three
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FvhTbXUaV0
part four
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AItPCEpHXuc&feature=related
part five
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK76xWyBgKg
February 28th, 2010 at 9:42 am
“Liberalism, atheism, male sexual exclusivity linked to IQ”
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence/index.html
February 28th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
DOES IT HAVE TO BE THE “LAST CHAPTER” FOR OUR SPECIES?
I think that is up to all of us to decide.
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010020828/getting-rid-hope-and-faith-abe-osheroff-politics-and-struggle
March 3rd, 2010 at 10:16 pm
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/03/i_wonder_if_this_will_work.html
At the risk of kicking up yet another needless shitstorm, I thought this blog posting by Roger Ebert was worth passing along.
It seems the web is still a pretty tricky beast when it comes to trying to make a dime. I wish him luck with Club Ebert (I wonder how a Club Negativland would go over. Perhaps if it were tied to OTE downloads?).
March 4th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Well, I’ll be the first to say: Sweet edits of OTE are the way to go. As mush as I loved the “WRWD” series, that ‘BIG PICTURE’ was a little TOO BIG!
March 4th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
Re 388: Does finance capitalism make us all whores and pimps to various degrees? I wonder how much money Ebert makes, how much less it is than he wants, and if it’s less than he actually needs to live.
March 4th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
I think you also have to add into that equation what his medical bills have been over the last handful of years, and what his medical costs are likely to be in the future.
And keep in mind, what he’s doing is entirely voluntary. He’s also entirely entitled to do with his written works whatever he wants. I don’t personally intend to join The Ebert Club, but I respect his right to make a living doing what he does (and it isn’t like the guy can make a living going on TV anymore, and print media isn’t especially healthy these days either). At the same time, it’s like he says himself, some of the best writing on the web is done for free.
I don’t know that I have a definitive answer for any of this myself. A lot people are overpaid for what they do, and a whole lot more people are underpaid for their labor. Believe me, I’m a union guy, so I know the score on that level. When it comes to art, whether it’s writing or painting or music, I don’t know for sure what the answers are there. Give people the choice, and they will support artists they like, even if they can get the material for free. Again, what the numbers break down to on that, I don’t have any real insight.
March 4th, 2010 at 7:52 pm
@287 http://twitter.com/killing_bono_ lol
March 4th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
I’d like to know more specifics on the meeting which was sampled in “You Don’t Even Live Here.”
I played it for a relative, and he thinks he might have been there. Was this in protest of the Shoreham plant on Long Island, NY?
March 5th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Considering I hear the woman mention PG&E, it must be from California!
March 5th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
back with more of my same flapdoodle:
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=16600
(w/thanks to vc for a prompt reminder of the ri board)
March 5th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
” It may be time to rethink our artistic posturing, and concede that people are influenced by what they see, and, occasionally, like monkeys, do. ”
(from link posted above)
March 5th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
Unless THAT’S WHAT ‘THEY’ WANT YOU TO DO!
I found it a little too obvious that all the major networks, (and a few of the minor ones) were quick to let all of us know what TWITTER was…… WHY was it so impressive to ‘them’? Did ‘they’ all own of piece of TWITTER? Did ‘they’ have to announce it as if you would be foolish NOT to get in on the ground floor of this new, exciting internet ‘thing-y’?
‘Their’ stories on it let a weird taste in my mouth. Thus, I only talk to people on this, The Resident little TV site, RI, No Homers, and Steve Hoffman forum!
March 5th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
That is, THE RESIDENTS little tv site:
http://www.residents.com/
March 5th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
“His study paints a blunt picture of how cynicism, far from inoculating citizens to resist political persuasion, merely delays the impact.”
http://www.miller-mccune.com/media/does-biased-news-have-a-time-bomb-effect-4940/
March 5th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
From the link i posted… I knew Bob Flanagan and his partner, and he was a truly compassionate human being- really funny too! He said one time he did this wierdo show hanging on hooks and a troop of BOY SCOUTS walked into the gallery. He spoke to them, answering questions and really connected with them. He had that quality. I did think however long was he going to be able to nail his balls to boards before running out of balls to nail…
i think really compassionate people exist and sometimes do dumb things. there is a motto where i work based on a 100+ years of miserable trial and error: create responsibly.
someday i am going to perform in a giant vagina helmet.
March 5th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
hint hint to the negativland re: its not too late to do something powerfully positiv with the *human* currency you have earned and are now afforded by the dearth of empathy on shared weird floating gassy rock in sky. do we need more advocacy for unregulated media? as it stands we have enough non-existent regulation and super great jobs for poor chicks in brazil (see last RI post). do we need more examples of how badass we all are at being desensitized to suffering? i think puppy killing is enough proof.
i think what we need are creative outlaws in pursuit of hippie jebus ideas like capital L love and absent G god.
March 5th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
a molotov: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlKgqTRNjcU
a good regulated bowel is akin to healthy regulated media (and govt, industry, etc)… without them, what do you get?
March 5th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
I have quite a bit of trouble visualising a giant vagina helmet, I have to say.
March 5th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
that would be the point. taking the idea of an exaggeratedly fetishized body part and enlarging it to a degree of absurdity and making it as normal as a face.
to my mind, as the owner of a vagina, all the weird ways men like to photo them are just ‘tarded. and i mean that will all my heart.
perhaps that is from having taught naked people drawing classes and having seen lots of naked bodies. after a while, the elbow looks weirder than the dongle, etc etc.
can we just be people? why do women so frequently have to be reduced to the few parts? when you have a healthy sexuality, to my mind those parts are part of the whole, not the only thing on a woman’s body worthy of fixating on. this goes for the fetishization males do of their own organs too.
something very puerile and underdeveloped about all that to my mind. ok, buy buy now.
March 5th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
oh wait, one more, this one makes my point better than any of the others… the bit at 6:34
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geXkOAlZ1YY
March 5th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNFfHT6OKAw
March 5th, 2010 at 10:19 pm
molotov: i suspect dobson to be gay
March 6th, 2010 at 6:33 am
http://www.wwwcomcom.com/gallery/paintings/35.jpg
March 6th, 2010 at 8:43 am
Bundy was also a Republican.
http://www.armchairsubversive.org/
March 6th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
p- yes, and c-yes.
March 7th, 2010 at 12:05 am
Bells and bells and bells and bells and…
Wild Gueixa.
March 7th, 2010 at 2:46 am
molotov: You cannot be trusted to judge for yourself what media you consume.
You cannot be trusted to judge for yourself what media you create.
You cannot be trusted with the technology to distribute what you create, and what you consume.
Submit.
Buy buy.
March 7th, 2010 at 9:36 am
Wait a minute, there’s a -girl-, grill, AND a gill here?
Three different people?
March 7th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
oh, i have an imposter. this is good.
which one is girl.
girl says: under the spreading chestnut tree, you stole all the power please stop selling me.
grill says: i dont trust our culture to not reduce us (the lower sex, the weaker vessel) to nothing. please stop participating in the sex inustrial complex that engenders empathy death and war.
gill says: i either mock the suggestion that we are infantilized to the point of not being trustworth to think for ourselves, or agree that we are all oblivious to justice and should give up and shop.
all make me feel very happy that there is inclusion of the other gender on a board belonging to such a long standing boys club.
March 7th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
i almost got fired last week for a suggestion at work that a boys club stop being such a boys club and let some non-penis holders in.
even though it was a true and verifiable statement, and there was data, eyewitness accounts to validate my statement, i was once again called insubordinate for the suggestion that men hold power and don’t like to be challenged on that small simple obvious concept.
luckily, there was one in the club that called all the others big fucking babies and blocked my dismissal.
thats how small this club is, you cant even point out that the boys fort has a no girls allowed sign on it.
every boys fort i ever snuck into as a girl smelled like pee and had crusty porn everywhere. i didnt want to be in it anyway.
but if you need to feed yourself and a girl child, you end up with no other choice but.
March 7th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
btw - its the 45th anniversary of selma bloody sunday.
there was a time when a man with dark skin would be beaten for a suggestion that the power club open up to include non white penis holders.
here we stand again at another threshold. the question is - can the whitemalesupremist clique be trusted not to devalue?
i say it is demonstrated that one man saying ok to inclusion starts the dominos falling, but it appears that it is still not without a fight.
March 7th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiOVOIm3Dq8
aren’t you glad they didn’t get sued for using that song?
March 7th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
some suggest this is the speech he got killed for:
http://current.com/items/88889534_dr-martin-luther-king-jr-speech-pauls-letter-to-american-christians.htm
do we really have to die or be reduced to nothing for not having a white penis attached where the vagina or black penis might be?
very simple question. capitalism says yes, you should die. you should not be aborted, we shall decide who lives to be cannon fordder to kill more dark people. dark people shall kill other dark people, women shall be raped, childred raped and thrown into dumpsters for an orgasm or maybe two.
what do you say?
March 7th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
this is the actual speech he was killed for.
and, yeah, i don’t trust white men to do the right thing. they so rarely prove that that is of interest to them. it seems much more about having nice cabinet work in the kitchen and pussy you can pitch a tent on in the bedroom than in anything close to parity.
just think on it, perhaps you can start the dominos falling. or not. either way, collapse of capitalism provides no safety net for anyone, male or female. at that point you are as debased as those debased by the system. better to become aware of this point now than face it once you have been stripped of your stock options, pensions and inheritances.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3zwcQlWsPU
March 7th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Well, if you don’t trust us there’s not really anything we can say, is there? Impostors notwithstanding, you’ve been encouraged several times to keep posting, and yet you write as if no dominoes have fallen. If our comments meant nothing to you, then the sea has apparently already engulfed us, including you, and the light has already gone out.
March 7th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
thanks for encouraging my encouragement. i do appreciate it.
love
grrila
March 7th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
i also want my underpants back.
March 7th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
the person who has them has apparently been engulfed by the sea.
March 7th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Off-Topic Alert.
Please forgive me and read re why I believe posting this info and request here are apropos. thx.
CHEVRON-TEXACO wants to bulldoze & build houses on the last wild area in N. Orange County/S. Los Angeles County region. CHEVRON-TEXACO has to get the land (which they own) rezoned by the city council of Fullerton (Calif) for it to happen.
The vote on this matter is March 10, 2010 at Fullerton (California) City Council meeting. The vast majority of residents (not just of Fullerton, but of all O.C. and Calif) don’t understand the ramifications of what is sliding past them, and what they’ll irreversibly lose. This of course favors CHEVRON-TEXACO’s plans. Obviously, most Negativlanders are extremely sophisticated regarding publicity/digital/viral media/multi-nationals, etc.- while I am not.
Can any of you who read this (see http://angeles.sierraclub.org/ocosc/coyote_hills.htm) create enough publicity to stop CHEVRON-TEXACO from bulldozing West Coyote Hills and have it designated a protected wild area (not a grassy park)?
The vote takes place in Fullerton (March 10th), but its outcome affects many ecosystems in Orange County, Los Angeles, and beyond. The West Coyote Hills territory is an important flyway for many birds and is a connecting habitat for other animals, some endangered.
Anybody out there know how to contact Ken Burns?!?!? It would be ideal to have him show up and make a presentation at the Fullerton City Council meeting– and maybe have Joni Mitchell there (via Skype?) singing “Paradise” and Woody Guthrie singing “This Land is Your Land (I mean THIS! THIS SPECIFIC LAND! RIGHT HERE!” :-)), etc. etc. A mobile mixologist showing up in the Fullerton City Hall meeting blasting out a digital mix would be great also, but I don’t think the people on the city council would quite get it.
Apologies again for posting off-topic here, but I assume that your politics are probably anti-Chevron and that there is a high probability that many who read this here are interested in this type of issue - and are sophisticated enough (digitally, politically, etc.) to make something happen to protect the West Coyote Hills from CHEVRON-TEXACO’s bulldozers. Thanks for any help.
P.S. Sites on web are already stating things like “The air has gone out of the movement to save Coyote Hills.” I am hoping a surprise avalanche of timely publicity will create a last minute resounding victory over CHEVRON-TEXACO.
March 7th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Don’t look at me. I’m not a transvestite.
March 7th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
I have great timing, don’t I?
Anyways, I know some environmentalist people in the Orange County area, L.L., and will spread the word.
March 7th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
Off Topic Alert. Please forgive me and read why posting this info/request here is apropos. Thanks in advance.
CHEVRON-TEXACO wants to bulldoze the last wild area in the N. Orange County-Los Angeles County region. CHEVRON-TEXACO has to get the land re-zoned by the Fullerton, California city council if the bulldozing/ housing development is to take place.
The vote on this matter is Thursday, March 18, 2010 at 6:00 p.m. (an hour early?) at the Fullerton city council meeting. There is also a presentation by Chevron and the city at the Wednesday, March 10th city council meeting at 7:00 p.m. Note that the meeting where they take the vote starts at 6:00 p.m. and the other, where Chevron gives their presentation, starts at 7:00 p.m. Please be sure to show up at 6:00 p.m. on March 18th – it may be that they are counting on supporters showing up at 7 p.m. –after the vote is already over! Please keep alert regarding possible tricky rescheduling of meeting times. so you don’t show up after the vote is over.
The vast majority of residents, not just of Fullerton, but of O.C. and of all California, don’t understand the ramifications of what CHEVRON-TEXACO is attempting to slide past them, through Fullerton city council, and what the people of California could irreversibly lose. This ignorance favors CHEVRON-TEXACO’s plans.
Obviously, most Negativlanders are extremely sophisticated re viral-digital publicity and the activities of multi-national corps, etc.- while I am not.
Can any of you help create an avalanche of timely publicity to stop CHEVRON-TEXACO’s bulldozing and irreversibly destroying the Coyote Hills ancient wild land? (see http://angeles.sierraclub.org/ocosc/coyote_hills.htmhelp)
While the territory in question is located in Fullerton, it affects ecosystems throughout all of Orange County, Los Angeles, and beyond. It is an important flyway and habitat corridor for many animals, plants, and birds -some of which are rare and/or endangered species.
Do any of you know how to contact Ken Burns?!?!? It would be ideal to have him make a presentation at the Fullerton City Council meeting, preferably with advance publicity.
Anyone who can do so is urged to attend the two meetings:
Wednesday, March 10th at 7:00 p.m.
and especially the meeting
Thursday, March 18th at 6:00 p.m. when the actual vote takes place.
Apologies again for posting off-topic. I assume, correctly I hope, that most of you at this site want to be informed about issues like this - and want to help use your digital media skills to protect wild areas such as the West Coyote Hills from the likes of CHEVRON-TEXACO.
March 7th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
sorry for double posting - my lack of web skills, again. thanks for your encouragement Christian @ post #426. wow–so fast! the web is truly amazing - L.L.
March 7th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
Yeah boy shake that ass, oops I mean girl, GIRL GIRL GIRL…..
How interesting has this little corner of the internet gotten all of a sudden?
PS - While my skin may be what is described in the mainstream as “WHITE”, I would say the weird looking organ that dangles between my legs - and is one of the 2 most important things belonging to the human race due to it’s necessity in providing more of us humans - happens to look pretty damn black… Certainly not white. Not sure where that leaves me.
Plus it’s actually RICH White Cocks in the main, which discounts myself in that particular club. My porn was always just lying about in the woods (who left it there and WHY???). Of course the den smelled like piss, the wood was stolen from the pissy alleyways…
I’m sorry to post about my dick on here, but I wasn’t the one to bring it up.
When you do your massive pussy helmet, girl, please send pictures so I don’t have to visualise. It’s hurting my tiny mind.
March 7th, 2010 at 7:39 pm
but we don’t need more humans. so neither junk is very important anymore!
except that where i work they are middle class white cocks in the main. and they hold power, and they wield it like total pussies.
they throw insults like girls. they are total fags.
anyway, i digress. i just want my fucking unerpants back to wear on my pussy helmet.
xoxo
delta ivan charlie kronkite.
March 7th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
The wave is on.
March 8th, 2010 at 6:56 am
“they throw insults like girls. they are total fags.”
I hope that was intentional. I had a good chuckle about that one.
If we don’t need humans anymore, then could you enlighten us to the point of getting all that worked up about whether 50% of a species that is unnecessary is worth getting all that concerned about? I have often considered that this planet would have got on better without us, but WE ARE HERE. If you accept that WE ARE HERE then you must accept the need for sexual organs and reproduction of our species. If you want the human race to extinct themselves, don’t expect ME to get all that worked up about the plight of your fellow sisters.
March 8th, 2010 at 9:23 am
I know the old saying goes, “The more I learn, the less I know.”
but, now, I’m afraid, I’m feeling that the more I learn, the less I want to involve myself with the human race!
March 8th, 2010 at 10:46 am
“If you accept that WE ARE HERE then you must accept the need for sexual organs and reproduction of our species.”
No I don’t. That humans exist now does not mean that humans must continue to exist.
March 8th, 2010 at 11:42 am
re: the CHEVRON-TEXACO deal:
I dare someone to make a deal:
They can totally take over the hills IF:
1) they cover the entire debt of California
AND
2) Give every state resident $150,000.00 so, if they choose, they can MOVE OUT!
They’ve got deep pockets. Chump change to those bastards.
March 8th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
i don’t think we should extinct ourselves, i just think we should calm the fuck down about hyper-extention of sexuality via an industrial complex that feeds empathy death and war. yes those comments were intentionally sarcastic! those are probably global insults “you are not man enough” being the worst case scenario in business. not man enough to kill, maim, rape, dehumanize your brother.
my daughter went through a phase of development that i think freud called polymorphously perverse. you know, you figure out you got pleasure buttons and push them with frequency and regularity. and then we hit puberty and the eggs want to be fertilized and the sperm wants to squirt. its all normal, natural, fascinating, mysterious, beautiful, wonderful.
the problem with our culture is that grown people refuse to outgrow stages that belong to certain phases of our evolution as individuals. meaning, the us (and many other cultures) is myopically adolescent in its desire to maintain the genitalia fascination long past the point of its function.
i am all for sex, its a great, great thing. but i read studies that say that most of the use of viagra (which is valued higher than gold presently per ounce in terms of cost) is used by single men. so what does that tell us - probably that a bunch of jackoffs are at their computers or wide screen tvs whacking it for 4-5 hours straight (which to me is just asking for some serious chafing and rashing) to fake sex. and upping the ante by requesting that the industry equate sex with violence… and if you look at the robert jensen and other related studies, this means that many jackoffs are thinking that women LIKE to be choked and bitten.
consensual adult activity is an incredible pastime. it should be something sacred, however, because otherwise what we have is akin to how this looks now: porn is used to prepare soldiers for battle. those are the studies that chill me to the bone. they actually promote it in segments where the grunt infantry has to go out and shoot some brown people.
and mainstream porn is not only violence=sex, it is also very, very, VERY racist.
so, while i fully support our responsible use of our organs, i also completely condone the state of perpetual adolescence the US (and maybe most of the planet for that matter) is stuck in.
charlie uncle nigel trotsky
girl
March 8th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
case in point:
i wonder how many orgasms worth the perp got from this body before he killed and dumped it.
Wouldn’t it be nice if we were older
Then we wouldn’t have to wait so long
And wouldn’t it be nice to live together
In the kind of world where we belong
You know its gonna make it that much better
When we can say goodnight and stay together
Wouldn’t it be nice if I could wake up next to your dead body
In the morning when the day is new
And after having spent the day together
Choking you to death the whole night through
The happy times together we’ve been spending
I wish that every kiss was never ending
Oh Wouldn’t it be nice
March 8th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/08/peter-chapman-admits-usin_n_489674.html
March 8th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
http://laist.com/2010/03/08/remains_of_amber_dubois_found_in_es.php
March 8th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
http://www.aztlan.net/nineyearoldrapevictim.htm
March 8th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
http://makkah.wordpress.com/2009/11/29/rape-within-the-u-s-military-1-in-3-women-service-members-sexually-assaulted-at-least-once/
say uncle
(and then google the origin of that colloquialism)
March 8th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
The thing I find stupidest about the Coyote Hills boondoggle is the idea that Orange County needs 760 “units” while homes are being foreclosed all over the country. The problem is not a lack of high priced housing. Of course Chevron-Texaco and Pacific Coast Homes have a different problem, which can be solved by taking taxpayer money.
Maybe some rich executives need fourth or fifth homes, but that’s no reason to destroy so much native coastal sage ecosystem. One can only hope coyotes will eat the executives’ offspring.
March 8th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
re 434: That sounds like something Suicide Man might say. If you are happy to exist YOURSELF, then you must concede that you have no right to stop others existing also.
I really don’t care, I just like stirring up the pot a bit to be perfectly honest.
March 8th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
March 8th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
I’m not happy to exist myself, but I can’t commit suicide because it’s a sin and God will send me to Hell.
March 8th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
http://www.archive.org/details/DuckandC1951
March 8th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2_sH64Fmac
March 8th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm07/chapter5.htm#age
March 8th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
one of my perps was a woman who had been perped. i feel sometimes luckiest in that I am not even slightly inclined to think about it. i am only inclined to see it gone from earth, as i think it does not befit evolution to continue to use once and destroy.
anything, for that matter, including wretched orange county
March 8th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
While most cases of reported sexual abuse are perpetrated by men (although women are catching up: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/sharp-rise-reported-in-child-abuse-by-women-1817509.html), most reported cases of neglect are by women. The thing is, men who abandon their families aren’t counted, so the percentages are probably very, very skewed. Both sexes are apparently just as likely to commit physical abuse and emotional abuse.
March 8th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
My opinion is that the family is where all oppression begins, so women are just as guilty as men. One can certainly argue, of course, that the rich fuckers who run the world cause parents to abuse their children by separating fathers (and, increasingly, mothers) and isolating them in abusive workplaces, but I’d counter that the rich fuckers who rule the world do what they do because their parents didn’t love them. The argument has be made, however, that they’re just psychopaths/sociopaths: http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/beware-the-psychopath-my-son/
March 8th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
there is a version of my helmet, phaguit
http://s759.photobucket.com/albums/xx240/girilla/?action=view¤t=McResident.jpg
c - I know you are right, but the stats on rape still demonstrate that the majority of perps are males. im still on the porn increases rape tangent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender
March 8th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
that ____ needs to be _______ in the __ for _______ all this ________:
http://www.enough.org/inside.php?tag=statistics
March 8th, 2010 at 6:27 pm
hey, im cheering up because this won an oscar:
http://vodpod.com/watch/3049654-logorama
ps- will remove stick from ass on video for $1500
March 8th, 2010 at 6:55 pm
Nanking didn’t happen because a bunch of Japanese soldiers were wanking to porn.
March 8th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
you are not even worth replying to.
March 8th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
except that you should research the history of korean comfort women, and how that impacted the japanese army, and how the chinese were not accustomed to having to fuck the japanese soldiers to keep them from slaughtering all of them including their fetuses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women
porn is prostitution, plain and simple. and what happened in nanking does not deserve comments like that.
you are one serious box of rocks, sir.
March 8th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
About the “comfort women:”
The first “comfort houses” were established approximately 1932-MAR during the battle of Shanghai. Following the second Sino-Japanese war of 1937, these houses were installed generally in occupied lands. Approximately 80 to 90% of the “comfort women” came from Korea which was occupied by the Japanese military at the time. Many of the rest were Chinese. 3 Some other Asian and Dutch women from countries that Japan had invaded were also enslaved . There were rumors about this form of slavery after the war. It was not until 1991 that a South Korean woman, Grandma Kim Hak Soon, became the first person to speak publicly about the existence of comfort women. It has since became public knowledge as other victim survivors have come forward and as groups have been founded to demand justice for these women.
One source suggests that the Japanese government organized the comfort stations for a number of reasons:
To increase the morale of the troops.
To prevent their soldiers from raping women in the territories that they controlled.
To more efficiently prevent the spread of STDs.
To prevent leakage of military secrets.
Can you imagine a bunch of nationalist goons showing up in your town and insisting you blow them all day everyday for a few weeks while they killed all your relatives? And when you resisted, they shoved machetes up your rear? Cuz thats what happened to those folks and your callous words are giving you away.
You like asian pussy yeah? China will soon own the US. Lets hope they don’t have a fondness for white boy ass.
March 9th, 2010 at 8:34 am
http://karenfinley.com/
March 9th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
http://www.mikemalloy.com/
March 9th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
this bored has some perps, which means I won’t be posting anymore. its been fun and to those of you who have been compassionate, i thank you. to those who suffer to support and justify the ongoing near global oppression of women, i suggest you reflect on this:
growing intolerance, narcissism, hedonism and the consumerism, which characterize Western civilization. Mix in the wide field of alternatives wrought by modern technologies. And the end result is the demise of long-term commitment and relationships. This is the sound bite age, the era of virtual sex, the shortest-term attention span ever. Individualism has gone cancerous and was replaced by Malignant Self Love. The result?
EPIC FAIL
March 9th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
What is the world coming to?
Fredy Marroquin-Rodriguez
March 10th, 2010 at 4:31 am
Failure IS imminent, after all.
Bye then, girl, you will be missed, but not for that long. I’ve already changed the channel to watch another programme.
March 10th, 2010 at 6:03 am
Mike Malloy is amazing. Also enjoy listening to and reading Thom Hartmann.
March 10th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
keepin it klassy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/08/hustler-magazine-asks-for_n_490823.html?ref=fb&src=sp
March 10th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
Jesus Motherfucking Christ.
March 11th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Anybody out there have any practical ideas to inform people and get media coverage about the Chevron-Texaco v Coyote Hills thing? Strippers at the city council meeting? A sing-in at city hall featuring “This Land is Your Land,” “Ticky-Tacky,” “Big Yellow Taxi,” and the Beverly Hillbillies t.v.show theme song - with lyric rewrites . . . ??? Help. ! !!! thx
March 12th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Those guys were pretty funny on last night’s OTE. Wish them good luck with the digitizing of the archives!
March 12th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
bannana
March 12th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
“Men who engaged in domestic violence consistently overestimated how common such behavior is, and the more they overestimated it the more they engaged in abusing their partner in the previous 90 days, according to new research conducted at the University of Washington.”
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/562128/
March 12th, 2010 at 6:52 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/teacher-writes-loser-on-child-s-assignments-18593231
March 12th, 2010 at 7:14 pm
http://www.laweekly.com/2010-02-26/news/rodney-alcala-s-final-revenge/
March 12th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chloe-angyal/sex-and-power-from-north_b_495296.html
March 12th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/11/father-rape-charges-new-j_n_494530.html
March 12th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-80619/Serial-killers-legal-aid-porn-bid.html
March 12th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
Lenny Bruce died for our sins.
http://www.jewish-theatre.com/VISITOR/article_display.aspx?articleID=2457
‘Bruce makes a very difficult martyr — he was too irascible, too self-destructive, too perverse, too unclassifiable. But he is a martyr nonetheless — a heartbreakingly vulnerable renegade who was broken by the final tail-lash of the dying dragon of American Puritanism.
Has that dragon really died? It’s true that no comedian or author or singer will probably ever again be led away in handcuffs for using what some beat cop decides are offensive words — certainly not for saying that Eleanor Roosevelt “had the nicest tits of any lady in office” or doing a shtick about a wife who returns home to find her husband screwing a chicken. But the outdated obscenity laws and murky Supreme Court rulings used to arrest and convict Bruce remain, a testament to our nation’s complete inability to deal with the issue of obscenity. (Indeed, as Ronald Collins and David Skover point out in their excellent book, “The Trials of Lenny Bruce,” his final New York conviction has never been formally overturned: In the eyes of the law, disgracefully, Lenny Bruce remains a criminal.)
Most tellingly, the highest powers in the land are still eminently capable of using those laws to crack down on material they deem immoral — even if millions of Americans spend billions of dollars a year consuming that material. The issue today is not dirty words or offensive comedic routines, but pornography — America’s favorite not-so-secret vice and the bête noire of cultural conservatives and religious fundamentalists. (At least the official bête noire: According to many in a position to know, the most Bible-thumping types tend to be the most avid watchers of porn.) Pornography may not be as inspiring a subject to defend as a Lenny Bruce spritz, but free speech is free speech. It’s also hard to avoid the feeling that Attorney General John Ashcroft and his ilk, who are constantly calling for a return to the good old days of clear moral guidelines and harsh sanctions, would have been among Bruce’s most zealous persecutors.’
March 12th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
On the subject of a certain religion:
PART ONE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD9f0XU_S78
PART TWO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frwlyx2u8JE&feature=related
PART THREE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovFFZ4iEFCo&feature=related
March 12th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
lenny bruce was not a pornographer but he did like the word cocksucker.
cocksucker cocksucker cocksucker cocksucker cocksucker cocksucker cocksucker cocksucker cocksucker cocksucker cocksucker cocksucker cocksucker cocksucker cocksucker
thats still not the same thing as pornography
March 12th, 2010 at 10:37 pm
the word pornography: Etymology
The word derives from the Greek πορνογραφία (pornographia), which derives from the Greek words πόρνη (pornē, “prostitute” and pornea, “prostitution”), and γράφω (graphō, “I write or record,” derived meaning “illustration,” cf. “graph”), and the suffix -ία (-ia, meaning “state of,” “property of,” or “place of”), thus meaning “a written description or illustration of prostitutes or prostitution.”
for that matter, lenny bruce was so strung out, who’s to say he wasn’t a whore for his fix?
March 12th, 2010 at 10:41 pm
the word whore: Etymology
The English word whore derives from the Old English word hōra, from the Indo-European root kā meaning “desire”.
March 12th, 2010 at 10:46 pm
The most common destinations for victims of human trafficking are Thailand, Japan, Israel, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Turkey and the US, according to a report by the UNODC (UN Office on Drugs and Crime).
The major sources of trafficked persons include Thailand, China, Nigeria, Albania, Bulgaria, Belarus, Moldova and Ukraine.
Use of children
Regarding the prostitution of children the laws on prostitution as well as those on sex with a child apply. If prostitution in general is legal there is usually a minimum age requirement for legal prostitution that is higher than the general age of consent. Although some countries do not single out patronage of child prostitution as a separate crime, the same act is punishable as sex with an underage person.
In India, the federal police say that around 1.2 million children are believed to be involved in prostitution. A CBI statement said that studies and surveys sponsored by the ministry of women and child development estimated that about 40% of all India’s prostitutes are children.
Thailand’s Health System Research Institute reported that children in prostitution make up 40% of prostitutes in Thailand
Some adults travel to other countries to have access to sex with children, which is unavailable in their home country. Cambodia has become a notorious destination for sex with children.
Thailand is also a destination for child sex tourism. Several western countries have recently enacted laws with extraterritorial reach, punishing citizens who engage in sex with minors in other countries. As the crime usually goes undiscovered, these laws are rarely enforced.
In illegal immigration
A difficulty facing migrant prostitutes in many developed countries is the illegal residence status of some of these women. They face potential deportation, and so do not have recourse to the law. Hence there are brothels that may not adhere to the usual legal standards intended to safeguard public health and the safety of the workers.
Relation to drugs
Some drug users, most commonly heroin or crack cocaine users, obtain their drugs primarily through prostitution. Some receive money for the sex, which is then used to pay for drugs. Others, sometimes called strawberries[36], receive the drug directly in trade for sex. These drug-addicted prostitutes most commonly take part in street prostitution, as they typically lack the resources to work independently from a private residence or be escort prostitutes, and many brothels do not want to employ visible drug users.
Street drug dealing and prostitution are often closely related, with many street-level drug dealers also acting as pimps and vice versa.
In affluent countries such as the United States and Western Europe the correlation between street prostitution and illegal drug use is high. In contrast, many prostitutes in the developing world are primarily motivated by the need for subsistence earnings for themselves or dependents. However, drugs and prostitution are increasingly becoming connected in urban areas in the developing world, for example in urban areas in Karachi and Thailand.
Not all prostitutes who use recreational drugs are driven to prostitution by their habit, but the two subcultures are still closely linked.
Violence against prostitutes
Female prostitutes are at risk of violent crime, as well as possibly at higher risk of occupational mortality than any other group of women ever studied.
For example, the homicide rate for female prostitutes was estimated to be 204 per 100,000 (Potterat et al., 2004), which is considerably higher than that for the next riskiest occupations in the United States during a similar period (4 per 100,000 for female liquor store workers and 29 per 100,000 for male taxicab drivers) (Castillo et al., 1994). However, there are substantial differences in rates of victimization between street prostitutes and indoor prostitutes who work as escorts, call girls, or in brothels and massage parlors (Weitzer 2000, 2005). While women who work on the streets are the most likely to be victimized, attacks and even murders of prostitutes have also occurred in legal and licensed brothels (such as in the German brothel Pascha).
March 12th, 2010 at 10:49 pm
Human trafficking and sexual slavery
Establishments engaged in sexual slavery are the highest priority targets of law enforcement actions against prostitution. It has been suggested that human trafficking is the fastest growing form of contemporary slavery and is the third largest and fastest growing criminal industry in the world.
“Annually, according to U.S. Government-sponsored research completed in 2006, approximately 800,000 people are trafficked across national borders, which does not include millions trafficked within their own countries. Approximately 80 percent of transnational victims are women and girls and up to 50 percent are minors,” reports the US Department of State in a 2008 study.Due to the illegal and underground nature of sex trafficking, the exact extent of women and children forced into prostitution is unknown.
Children are sold into the global sex trade every year. Often they are kidnapped or orphaned, and sometimes they are sold by their own families. According to the International Labour Organization, the problem is especially alarming in Thailand, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Vietnam, Cambodia, Nepal and India.
Poverty, social exclusion and war are at the heart of human trafficking. Some women are hoodwinked into believing promises of a better life, sometimes by people who are known and trusted to them. Traffickers may own legitimate travel agencies, modeling agencies and employment offices in order to gain women’s trust. Others are simply kidnapped. Once overseas it is common for their passport to be confiscated by the trafficker and to be warned of the consequences should they attempt to escape, including beatings, rape, threats of violence against their family and death threats. It is common, particularly in Eastern Europe, that should they manage to return to their families they will only be trafficked once again.
Globally, forced labour generates $31bn, half of it in the industrialised world, a tenth in transition countries, the International Labour Organization says in a report on forced labour (”A global alliance against forced labour”, ILO, 11 May 2005). Trafficking in people has been facilitated by porous borders and advanced communication technologies, it has become increasingly transnational in scope and highly lucrative within its barbarity.
March 12th, 2010 at 10:53 pm
did lenny bruce have any idea this was going to be cumming?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Longhurst
March 12th, 2010 at 11:47 pm
“With sexual assault the more a man thought it was prevalent the more likely he was to engage in such behavior. If we can correct misperceptions about the prevalence of intimate partner violence, we have a chance to change men’s behavior. If you give them factual information it is harder for them to justify their behavior,” Neighbors said
Walker added: “It is unclear if we can change perpetrators’ behavior by correcting their misperceptions about intimate partner violence. However, work in alcohol use suggests that changing misperceptions about drinking changes drinking behavior among college students. Consistent with social norms theory, people are motivated to be ‘average’ in many ways, particularly if the behavior in question could be considered risky or taboo.”
March 13th, 2010 at 12:00 am
“It is quite natural for children to awaken sexual desire in the adult, because they tend to be beautiful, cuddly, affectionate, and because they admire the adult so much, probably more than anyone else does.” - Alice Miller (http://www.iraresoul.com/alicemiller.html)
I disagree.
March 13th, 2010 at 9:21 am
On a lighter note, a new PEOPLE LIKE US/ WOBBLY album, coming soon! YAY!
http://www.peoplelikeus.org/2010/coming_soon_a_new_album_from_people_like_us_wobbly.html
March 13th, 2010 at 9:35 am
On the serious note, on the subject that’s been happening here:
http://solitarywatch.wordpress.com/2010 … cans-vote-
to-let-schoolchildren-be-held-down-tied-up-and-put-in-solitary-confinement/
Most House Republicans Vote to Let Schoolchildren Be Held Down, Tied Up, and Put in Solitary Confinement
MARCH 5, 2010
by James Ridgeway and Jean Casella
On Wednesday afternoon, the United States House of Representatives passed H.R. 4247, the Preventing Harmful Restraint and Seclusion in Schools Act (now being called the Keeping All Students Safe Act), by a vote of 262-153. In the final vote count, 238 Democrats and just 24 Republicans voted for the bill, while 8 Democrats and 145 Republicans voted against it. (Check out the full roll call here.)
March 13th, 2010 at 11:41 am
from comments: I hate to say this but, women shouldn’t run alone. It has become way to dangerous out there.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/13/malibu-jogger-jumps-off-c_n_497719.html
March 13th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
Re 489: I know this won’t be popular here, considering Negativland’s stance against guns, but women should arm themselves. And if a man tries to rape them, shoot him in the crotch.
Re 488: And this won’t be popular just about anywhere… Children should arm themselves.
March 13th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
i think its much more socially acceptable with males for women to leap from cliffs after allowing the assaulter to argue that his long standing love affair with internet porn drove his inability to think for himself any longer. and that it was in fact a first amendment right under the monkey see monkey do clause.
however, i agree with you that arming children seems like the best solution to our long standing population issues and also the final solution to the ultimate existential question of what to do about people in a general sense.
March 13th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
I trust the US government to always do the right thing by the citizens of the world and that we citizens should never question any legistlation or any kind of industry deregulation.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7415082/French-bread-spiked-with-LSD-in-CIA-experiment.html
March 13th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
and i believe fully in my church, for wherelese would i get my access to the porn that drives my monkey see lust for 5 year old boy ass rape. i only wish i could have been born in italy and become a priest, where my porn coveted boy ass is purveyed on a bed of lettuce with a sip of the blood of the christ in the vatican city.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/13/catholic-church-child-abu_n_497942.html
March 13th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
i wonder if he was downloading it free at work?
http://www.cathnewsusa.com/article.aspx?aeid=20024
March 13th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
I don’t think women with guns would have to give as much of a fuck (pun intended) what males find socially acceptable.
Imagine if all women were capable of deadly force. The problematic portion of the male population would either have to control themselves or they wouldn’t be around long enough to cause so much trouble.
March 13th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
you sir, are hired.
March 13th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Free_Speech_Coalition
damn woman on the scrotus didn’t agree that my right to barely legal teen porn was my godgiven right, goddammit. thank god for clarence thomas or i wouldnt be getting my spurt on right NOW! ugh un oh. this ones getting a little old looking, must be almost 17.
any of you know how am i going to get the damn motivation to rape and dismember a teen if i can’t get my damn barely legal!?!
huh? one of you kids pass the viagra, my hardons starting to fade….god damn census workers better not come out here looking for teens.,,,
March 14th, 2010 at 11:41 am
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2010-03/12/c_13208219.htm
AMERICA NUMBER ONE IN ONLINE “PRIVACY” and “FREEDOM”. ALSO NUMBER ONE RAPE COUNTRY.
we’re number one! we’re number one!
March 14th, 2010 at 11:51 am
The United States is pushing its hegemony under the pretence of “Internet freedom.” The United States monopolizes the strategic resources of the global Internet, and has been retaining a tight grip over the Internet ever since its first appearance. There are currently 13 root servers of Internet worldwide, and the United States is the place where the only main root server and nine out of the rest 12 root servers are located. All the root servers are managed by the ICANN (Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers), which is, by the authority of the U.S. government, responsible for the management of the global root server system, the domain name system and the Internet Protocol address. The United States has declined all the requests from other countries as well as international organizations including the United Nations to break the U.S. monopoly over the root servers and to decentralize its management power over the Internet. The United States has been intervening in other countries’ domestic affairs in various ways taking advantage of its control over Internet resources. The United States has a special troop of hackers, which is made up of hacker proficients recruited from all over the world. When post-election unrest broke out in Iran in the summer of 2009, the defeated reformist camp and its advocators used Internet tools such as Twitter to spread their messages. The U.S. State Department asked the operator of Twitter to delay its scheduled maintenance to assist with the opposition in creating a favorable momentum of public opinion. In May 2009, one web company, prompted by the U.S. authorities, blocked its Messenger instant messaging service in five countries including Cuba.
March 14th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Re 497: We will send some teens right over, gramps, however they will be armed. From there you will be taken to an in-patient facility to discuss your motivations with a therapist. In the meantime read this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-ducat/emasculation-in-republica_b_106823.html
Re 498: “Freedom” is a myth: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/02/science/02free.html
In other news, women are now using porn for their own purposes: http://www.gastongazette.com/news/allegedly-41065-rocha-boy.html Yay equality!
March 14th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
so, this leads one to consider the idea that not only does that one root server have the ability to parse through any/all of our communications on the interwebs, it knows what kind of porn you like, what kind of porn and entertainment you steal, and where and how you steal it. and for the most part unless you server some purpose, does not give a fuck except to use the data to perhaps deliver some more of the empathy killing information in larger and more potent doses. and then one can consider the possibility that this is to train us in pavlovian ways to see and think most helpfully as outlined by the war machine that runs ALL of our government. thinking we are up to some stealth outlaw or even mature adult behavior is naive. what we are up to is being puerile, forgetting how to have an imagination for the things that once belonged solely to us (nature, sex) and being monitored by the big eye and trained by the big police entertainment complex for the ‘better things’ of capitalism.
negativland has it almost 90% right except for the issue of pornography and a “free and unregulated” internet. on that one they are dummies outmanned and outgunned by the penis patrol. “hands on your dicks - ok - aim - SHOOT!”
under the spreading chestnut tree
you orgiastically invited your own lobotomy
war=peace, freedom=slavery, sex=violence.
March 14th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
note to negativland: its never too late to correct a negativ first impression.
March 14th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Re 495: Surely in the land of the free there is no problem for women to get a hold of a gun? I really don’t see how it would help much. As for arming children, well if matches are dangerous then guns most certainly are.
As a species are we really so bad? Don’t most animals do pretty much all that we do? By that I mean rape/murder/incest etc….
To clarify, I don’t rape/murder or commit incest, but all I mean is that animals are as bad as us? Or should we destroy this randomly created wonderland because ocassionally the randomness is disturbing? Isn’t there plenty of beauty to outweigh the shit?
Go out and look at some flowers or watch a sunrise/sunset, gaze up at the stars etc… Who gives a shit about all this really??? We will be here for the blink of an eye and then it’s bye bye bye. Do we really want to spend our days of randomness moaning about a few problems we may have??
Some people just are happy to feed their children.
March 14th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
PS - looking forward to the wobbly album.
March 14th, 2010 at 5:46 pm
just for fun, try typing ‘www.negativland.com’ into the following site:
http://www.codeorgan.com
I think the result is rather fitting actually.
http://www.eminem.com also sounded apt to me.
March 15th, 2010 at 5:12 am
All this porn talk! The solution is more art. How about a little art talk once in a while? That’s what Negland makes, not porn.
Yes, porn is art, but it’s not the only kind.
March 15th, 2010 at 6:27 am
I almost thought that =girl= was the woman on the phone, who joined in on the last OTE, when she mentioned the tough personal time she had, living with ‘artists’!
March 15th, 2010 at 7:12 am
re 506: sometimes it really is better not to feed the trolls. So speaketh one with the distinct impression that his hand is about to be bitten off….
Some ‘art’ for y’all.
http://www.fallyrag.com/blogs/jon.php?entry=18
March 15th, 2010 at 7:17 am
PS:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=art&word2=porn
So there!!!
March 15th, 2010 at 8:37 am
Hey, Phantom, did YOU like the last OTE?
I did.
March 15th, 2010 at 11:34 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnbYcB9ctu8&feature=player_embedded
March 15th, 2010 at 11:40 am
nah, that wasn’t me, i have a kid and have to go to sleep at a decent hour. i actually continue to make provocative art and play music. you guys would crack up if you knew who i was. it seems like im a troll, and yeah, you would assume im anti-sex, but the point wasn’t to be a man hater, it was to push buttons and cause thought.
i have a newer younger lover in his 20s who grew up on internet porn who does not think for a second that it is the same thing as sex. in fact, he says “it does all the work for you” and “fucks with your head” and “makes you lose your ability to have an erection for sex with real girls”…. which was actually my point the whole time.
if you had ever been in porn, you wouldn’t think it art. if you had ever been raped or had a daughter, you wouldn’t think it a good idea to use it as a sexual aid.
sex and nudity are artists fodder, pornography and degradation and the industry behind it are crass, commercial and they negate human interactions.
troll that!
nudity can be art, nakedness can be art, but porn ain’t art.
March 15th, 2010 at 11:50 am
also, i like montage work, have taught video/audio extensively, and do appreciate the genre to the point where its a subject i follow. i also have produced a number of video, some with nudity, and am not even slightly put off by the idea of remix culture. in fact, i grew up on hip hop and punk rock, and know that the history of the lawsuiting predates negativland. PE were actually friends of mine back in the day. Africa Bambatta started it, and before him there were others, it was not a white guy thing in the early days. It was more of a rap thing.
I live in a place where you can get a moog and a laptop and some mashup software and start an art noise band and get a record contract and go forth and conquer the scene in about a week. Its no big deal to me to see people “stealing” from eachother, because teaching art, well, all you do is show other peoples art to teach people art. and sometimes you have them do art.
but the”inside joke” about porn actually is hurtful to women. it may be the case that women are jumping on board and getting into it to please guys, but most of them are middle or upper middle class who have not nor will ever have to consider it as a means to pay rent and buy food. the industry there (and not the classywanky playboy stuff- you might as well admit you have a crush on ashley simpson at that point)… and negativland on that issue reminds me totally of cheesy hiphop or bad metal.
come on negativland, you know you want girls to like you! girls like boys who are nice to girls. thats really the way it works.
if you act like women are sputum fodder, women will think you are creepy!
March 15th, 2010 at 11:59 am
or maybe you guys are the kind of nerds who like hurting women who come from poverty and rape backgrounds (the kind who usually end up in porn) and enjoy the thought that its a power/control use once and destory thing?
which actually makes girls from poverty/rape backgrounds really sad, bummed, and feel really degraded…
c’mon, think a little! be kind a little! there ain’t nothing wrong with someone speaking out for the little people - the poor and the used and the degraded!
March 15th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter — Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
thats all i have to say. the rest is up to you. just know that if you come from that background, its super painful. my cousin ended up suiciding because she got so used up by the industry. it ain’t what it looks like from the other side, those dumbass playboy girls tell about .000000000000006 of the story.
besides, in know way more about it than negativland does from all sides, and i have the naked pictures to prove it!
wake up. this country (the US) is getting steamrolled by the war machine. and you all are too comfortable! you are rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. ship sinking! ship is sinking!
March 15th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
whoops im getting old, i spelled his name wrong:
afrika bambaataa:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h6pcqC6wrI
March 15th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9eLeZS9OeY
(early sampling was used in this song in 77)
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/electronic-publications/stay-free/archives/20/public_enemy.html
first sampling lawsuits w/bombsquad that started to shape the copyfight
March 15th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
and negativland, you are going to have to prove this:
“Yes, porn is art, but it’s not the only kind.”
i dare you, i challenge you to prove it.
March 15th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
oh, and my new lover is a paid professional artist who teaches life drawing and sells his fine art! even he knows the difference between art and porn! he used to make gay porn! he draws naked chicks and dudes all day and teaches others how to draw them. some of them are attractive (uh oh, boner patrol at work!)
duh! take the pepsi challenge. prove that porn is art!
it ain’t and it ain’t never gonna be!
March 15th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
here negativland - maybe this will help you get your brain waked up for the pepsi challenge!
http://www.idiagram.com/CP/cpprocess.html
its a duel!
March 15th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
oh and i am in a band with a woman who does nothing BUT sell her art and only teaches for fun - not for money. She is a prime example of the kind of art work that is comes from a source not only ESSENTIALLY GOOD and AUTHENTICALLY TALENTED, but does not need to rely on shock factor or bad taste or me me me provocation to get attention or gallery representation. Shes just a fucking great artist.
She and I frequently talk about how stupid the narcissistic me art is, how BAD it is, and how much defense that the ones who make it do in defense of it. She also agrees that as someone who has been objectified many times by many men, that porn is a denigrating influence on those that defend it. She chose her husband because he is also ethical, talented, and does not need to defend the lowest common denominator chicanery of our military industrial culture to validate flaccid self-esteem and lack of decent interpersonal skills. You know, the kind that get you LAID by REAL WOMEN.
March 15th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
‘Antichrist’ by Lars von Trier
‘9 Songs’ by Micheal Winterbottom
‘Brown Bunny’ by Vincent Gallo
‘Eyes Wide Shut’ by Stanley Kubrick
March 15th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
-girl-, what do you think of Karen Finley?
March 15th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
gf - those are not porn films, they are *films* with sex in them. huge difference between the film industry and porn industry!!!
kubric was no less a pornographer than negativland.
vc - love KF. she’s the punk to my post punk.
March 15th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
i think i meant to say no more of a pornographer, but hope you get my point there.
the PORN INDUSTRY is a brutalizing machine. the FILM INDUSTRY is a whole other can of worms, but it isn’t the PORN INDUSTRY, and yes, it is art with sex in it.
… to my mind that’s like saying Halliburton/KBR is a “construction company”
March 15th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
GF - this might help you, you could use some critical thinking skills: http://www.idiagram.com/CP/cpprocess.html
negativland, you should know better, but apparently don’t. I recommend reading a bit more about collapse, specially the recent book by jared diamond. civilizations fail when they forget about social interdependence. you can pretend you are an independent thinking and an island of cult of one, but not one of us is independent at all when faced with a food shortage or a war on our soil. we are generally at that point survivalists, hunger victims, or dead.
in the congo, men are being or were raped too. it is an instrument of war. the porn industry is promoting violence against women for the purposes of dehumanizing the male brain and reducing empathy. wake up now before your own personal ass is bleeding! there is still time. but not much more.
March 15th, 2010 at 5:43 pm
oh, 3 NL fans: here is a picture of me:
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7631/taxe.swf
thats why i hate porn, nobody but total losers will fuck me.
March 15th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
porn or art?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/pets/detail?entry_id=56610
discuss.
March 15th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
i can’t even have a decent debate on this bored.
hey, btw - why don’t you wankers read? reading (including erotica) actually makes sex more interesting in real life, as opposed to porn, which gets BORING after a few watches, unless you are a permanent, lifelong grandpahardon wanker.
http://vimeo.com/2295261
now that, is art.
March 15th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
FINAL questions for the day:
1. Which is the biggest sex organ in the human body?
2. What is the purpose of propaganda?
3. What does propaganda do to the brain?
4. How heavy is that box of rocks on the very top of your spinal cord and your neck?
(hint hint, answer to question one hidden within)
March 15th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Worst sex education class ever. I’m dropping out.
But the new episode of OTE, eh? I look forward to the stereo version and giving it a proper listen. Anything to do with Industrial always get my attention. I had to smile at the bit with the Queen Street record store, because I’m pretty sure I know the place their talking about. The reference to the blank record sleeves is a bit depressing though, and I remember seeing the same anonymous wall of vinyl at Sunrise Records during the height of the Techno and House music phase. When album art and artist names are no longer necessary, it means that the music has become so generic it no longer needs any other identifier than its genre name.
It’s a shame, because in the beginning Industrial more than just dance music, and indeed, more than music. Throbbing Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire were both strongly associated with collage art, in addition to various kinds of performance art stunts. The idea behind DoubleVision was to release video cassettes as a kind of alternative to simply releasing audio recordings. A lot of these ideas trickled down into the second generation of Industrial artists -but this is territory that we’re already familiar with and well worn history by now.
March 15th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
gf - you are fabulous with the deck chairs, lovely job. I hear princess crusies are hiring.
March 15th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
ps, gf you are the only one on this board who seems like a total douche. the rest of you seem cool. wanker is my new special nickname for you.
so, wanker, are you in negativland? cuz i challenged them to the debate, not one of their fluffers.
March 15th, 2010 at 10:55 pm
oh and wanker, if you are in negativland, the i for sure totally hate negativland. just for the record.
March 15th, 2010 at 11:49 pm
one last try (re: violence + porn corollary):
Sadomasochism has always been the furthest reach of the sexual experience: when sex becomes most purely sexual, that is, severed from personhood, from relationships, from love. It should not be surprising that it has become attached to Nazi symbolism in recent years. Never before was the relation of masters and slaves so consciously aestheticized. Sade had to make up his theater of punishment and delight from scratch, improvising the decor and costumes and blasphemous rites. Now there is a master scenario available to everyone. The color is black, the material is leather, the seduction is beauty, the justification is honesty, the aim is ecstasy, the fantasy is death.
(Susan Sontag (b. 1933), U.S. essayist. “Fascinating Fascism,” Under the Sign of Saturn (1974, repr. 1980).)
March 16th, 2010 at 12:21 am
“Girl” -
You are right, the patriarchal hegemony we are embedded in here in the United States (and a lot of the world, for that matter) is unfair to women, and objectifying and dehumanizing anyone for the purposes of selfish gratification is unethical.
For any way that we may have offended you as individuals or as a collective, sincere apologies.
March 16th, 2010 at 8:09 am
Wait, wait, wait….. What did the Negs do, anyway?
March 16th, 2010 at 8:11 am
Girl, if you want a debate you’ll have to go at our (snails) pace. This used to be a quiet backwater type of message board, so bombarding us with screeds of questions, text and links naturally frightens us a little bit.
Ask a question and a day or so later your reply may come, that’s the way it used to work on here. Negativland rarely post here, you should feel fairly privileged to have received a timely answer to your queries.
VC - haven’t listened to the new OTE, was kinda waiting for the full stereo experience rather than the really low quality version from KPFA. I used to listen to them from KPFA only to then have to listen all over again to hear it properly, so now I tend to just wait.
March 16th, 2010 at 8:45 am
If anything, I thank =girl= for giving this little ‘corner’ some action.
“Remember when it was just: “I like this.” “I like this, too.”
“I like that.” “I like that, too.”
lol
March 16th, 2010 at 11:42 am
my life used to be a quiet backwater until i got sucked into a semi-predatory experience i wasn’t emotionally prepared for. i feel used and duped. it all ties into muchness with this website, and other things.
someday it will be in my memoirs.
btw - negativland didn’t respond, i was just jamming their board to scare bullies like gf into thinking god was giving the 11th commandment.
it was for personal kicks.
i think the only way i would get a response is if i posted a pic of my vagina with a sign that said “free pussy”… so, to my mind, negativland gets to call themselves representatives of social justice only as it applies to upper and middle class white males.
cheers yall.
March 16th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
btw pg- be careful how you frame privilege. some folks (usually those that have a penis but not always) take that kind of fawning and use it to create a jim jones sense of personal self righteousness bordering on megalomania. its best not to encourage hero-worship, more helpful ultimately to encourage humane/healthy and mutually respectful creative appreciation. much better for the human race and for the hero’s being worshipped, ultimately.
it does all end in death, after all, and it ends up in the annals of history as nuthin but folly.
life is short, art is long, BUT love is all there really is when you break it down to the point of final departure - ie death. love wins out over ego, art and all else. if you void that contract with humanity, you fail. its just plain ol karma.
i wish you all to be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
namaste
March 16th, 2010 at 10:56 pm
If you want a real debate, girl, you’re gonna have to find a board where more people disagree with you!
March 17th, 2010 at 12:38 am
Geez, I haven’t been here in a while.
There’s a real girl here and an attempt at a flame war.
I was wanting to talk about the music, cultural jihad and other boring stuff. Damnation!
March 17th, 2010 at 12:41 am
I was reading the Wikipedia entry on Escape From Noise and was wondering about the assertion that Greg Ginn having had Methods of Torture removed from the SST reissue of the album. Is that ‘true’?
I mean, it’s Wikipedia and all.
If so, why?
Also, who wouldn’t like to hear EFN remixed?
Just sayin’?
March 17th, 2010 at 4:50 am
I liked it. So much useful material. I read with great interest.
March 17th, 2010 at 11:39 am
Bah. Discount generic viagra is allowed to spam, but my comment is awaiting moderation. Harumph.
March 17th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
re 542: the ‘you should feel privileged’ comment was spoken with tongue firmly in cheek. I do not, will not EVER hero worship Negativland, or anyone else, besides the one true Bob… (maybe)
Oh, and me and my not so white male sexual organ of course, gotta worship the member….
VC - I agree, I’ve kinda liked girl in the main.
Rich, welcome back. I like that, and this too.
March 17th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
goddamit, you people sucked me back in.
don’t worship bob. i socialize with his people and they are blowhards, sword swallowers, and adult babies.
i admit i like a good chat/scrap but the arguments have to be really good or i get impatient and turn into bitchy little sister.
love
bls
March 17th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
i have met most of the people involved in the eff as i am in technology and am an artist. i work with the creative commons folks and use their agreements in the work that i do.
i know a bunch of TED assholes. some are lady assholes.
i used to be a giant narcissist in my 20s and was taken all over the world as a result i became disgusted with people who let fame and success go to their head and then expect special treatment because i became one.
i think the biggest cultural malady in the modern age is narcissism, and artists/performers anyone in showbiz are the worst perps of that. especially when they say they are not - BIG RED FLAG.
ok, there has got to be something in there for someone to take issue with.
March 17th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
i am more to the left than the black panther party and an even bigger feminist man-LOVER than andrea dwarkin (people got her SOOOO wrong). i wear a cobra snake for a necktie, my chimbley is made out of human skulls. im just 42 and i dont mind dying.
March 17th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
a colleague/friend/scrapper of mine has just released the film HOWL to the festivals, it will soon be showing mainstream theaters maybe, mostly art houses.
i was invited to sundance for the screening but didn’t go. if you want to learn anything about obscenity, the injustice of prosecuting ART (as opposed to stupid fucking mind killing dick drooping porn) go see it. tis the tale of ginsburg’s trial for a POEM.
you think lenny bruce took it up the butt from the man, go see this movie.
March 17th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
and i suppose i should say, with all due respect to those who prefer the backdoor, took it up the butt with NO LUBE. not even 10-40 or WD-40.
March 17th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
art that is not porn
March 17th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexameade/4178981210/
March 17th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
RE: 550:
Yeah, the narcissism thing has become an obsession with me, as well.
I keep running into classic, textbook cases and can see how they continue to suck the life out of everyone around them.
Was briefly engrossed in the works of Dr. Sam Vaknin, but am not entirely convinced that he’s not simply an uber-narcissist who’s found a way to integrate his dysfunction into his psyche and thereby dismiss it.
The scary, ugly thing is when I recognize aspects of narcissism in myself.
March 17th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
our culture encourages it. it also encourages that ‘we get ours’ at the expense of whomever it being got from…. and the ruthlessness has permeated every centimeter of relations. especially intimate, but also family and social.
healthy narcissism is one thing we all should share, but western civ breeds a kind of selfishness that has advanced the cause of the asshole takes all with no thought to the what has been taken and who suffers. we bear no shame or remorse for our incivility anymore..
. the altar of the lowest common denominator. showbiz and government and religion breed the worst examples of that kind of thing. the pope, the performer, the senator. all egregious douchebags.
i think sam vaknin is an unhealed narcissist, which is why he is so spot on. i dont think he treats anyone from a place of altruism, but that he knows how sick he is and knows he can help people avoid those that won’t or can’t see the split in themselves. i think one of his best points is that a narcissist is fundamentally incapable of seeing his or her own narcissism, which is how and why it becomes pathological.
meanwhile, those of us that do spot the behavior in ourselves, or find it uncomfortable enough to reflect on, are probably saner than those that cant or wont admit to it as an issue.
March 17th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7520102537648426467
March 17th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
good one. of course i have to post this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNlRoaFTHuE
March 17th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
peeking bob
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVtzC3dLYy8
March 17th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
a lot of the video work i did (when i did that sort of thing) was mashups of old national geographic vhs collected from thrift stores - totally abstract and dada. this link/artist is very similar to the style of my work - i need to digitize it so I can post it.
some kind of progressive jazz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSoHKMeYZCE
March 17th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
this one goes with 559:
http://www.truthout.org/i-dont-want-be-famous-i-want-our-people-get-enough-rice-the-messenger-band-interview57535
the “pop star” in cambodia vs. the megalomania of western civ…
(should she just give up and start showing pussy? thats the ticket to liberation, or so i hear)
March 17th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
too bad these “ladies” got rescued, they would have made great porn stars from all that early training:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/20186675/page/2/
March 17th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
You just can’t keep a good girl down.
March 17th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
sure you can. tell her she has multiple personality disorder!
March 17th, 2010 at 5:30 pm
btw- the artist frank difficult in 560 + 561 is the person who i first heard negativland from. i was doing weird super 8 movies and playing music/making art in the early 80s and he was a dj at the unlv radio station in las vegas and he played a whole set one night and told me to listen. i was just a kid from a shitty background.
no one told me then that it was going to be much harder than i thought to be accepted as an artist who was also a feminist. and i dont mean the man version of feminist (shut up and look pretty, smarty pants) but the real version. thats where i heard I had mpd. when it became obvious that shut up and look pretty and show some pussy while you are at it is more interesting to str8 guys. this kind of thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8injvP1lJ8I
March 17th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
school yourself in recent capitalism’s massive effort behind your brain’s dickwashing:
(i know, i know, shes fat, does not show you her tits, but you can learn how duped you really are, you super savvy “culture jammers!!”):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5003155114018800220&ei=BmWhS6jeLJmmrAOj_dmSDA&q=gail+dines&hl=en&client=safari#
March 17th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
so liberating!
http://www.hustlingtheleft.com/
March 17th, 2010 at 11:54 pm
so liberal!
http://www.hustlingtheleft.com/CRAPP_E_LIB/leftissue.html
March 18th, 2010 at 8:41 am
Oh, here’s something I like:
http://www.osymyso.com/index.html
Like People Like Us, ALL Osymyso’s stuff is free!
March 18th, 2010 at 10:41 am
re 570: Pat n Peg is superb!! Gotta love an Eastenders mashup…
March 18th, 2010 at 10:47 am
I absolutely LOVE this:
http://www.cockrockdisco.com/CRD2/albumpages/Crockp3-022.html
and this was on my MP3 player for weeks on end last year…
http://www.cockrockdisco.com/CRD2/albumpages/Crockp3-020.html
And girl, some of the Hustler cartoons sickened me, I have to say.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:28 am
thanks pg, the one about the first amendment is my point here and my reason for asking mark hosler to reconsider being so anti-regulation regarding file sharing. its ok to borrow from artists, but they lump all that obscenity stuff under the same amendment and it ends up being really dark, brutal actually.
here is the new project i am working on with my new bf:
http://soundcloud.com/user18003/lisps
i want to add samples (Im using the laptop and some fun software to add newagey sounds over his drumming) but i have yet to determine who or where i want to get it.
i play real instruments too, so I may just stick to the womanmade stuff..
i dig the people like us but am leaning toward more hand crafted. one of the bands i am in is old timey soul r&b and cuntry. old timey, lots of chanting and union labor sounding vocalizing….
cheers. thanks for being grossed out. that means a lot to women that men pay a bit of attention. when i was more of a public figure i was assaulted nearly on a weekly basis. horrid life. horrid.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:42 am
also if you read the article in 569 - this pops out:
ews Corp. is a major owner of DirecTV, which sells more pornographic films than Flynt. In 2000, the New York Times reported that nearly $200 million a year is spent by the 8.7 million subscribers to DirecTV. Among News Corp.’s other media holdings are the Fox broadcasting and cable TV networks, Twentieth Century Fox, the New York Post, and TV Guide. Welcome to synergy: Murdoch also owns HarperCollins, which published pornography star Jenna Jameson’s best-selling book How To Make Love Like A Porn Star.
Murdoch has this whole country by the balls. It’s as bad as the collapse people suggest. It really is. There isn’t any innocent exploration left to be had. We are either going to get really smart really fast, or China will split us into sections and put the wallmart factorys on this continent and start their own gated communities where they can sit back and watch us be tormented the way we have tormented the world for so long now. Probably all broadcast on cable TV via Rupert Murderock….
March 18th, 2010 at 11:51 am
that the toilet stuff is the sh*t
March 18th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
http://manufacturedcontempt.wordpress.com/
read rebecca’s account. flynt - protected under the first amendment - the magazine’s advocacy of child rape. her account is similar to mine, hers worse. i think you can trace the increases of incidence of this kind of crime to the emergence of this magazine and its impact on brain. how can this be ok with anyone? if it is ok with you, perhaps you can consider the idea that you are a sociopath?
porn is art?
also, the song on thigmotactic that mocks some douchebag “healer” of women who come from child sexual abuse matched with a bunch of pictures of disembodied spread eagles and the vagina’s cut out. kinda sick if you are a woman who has been abused. not sending a very healthy mindset.
it would be nice to hear an argument defending not only the mockery of sexual abuse, but the weird vagina fetish behind that image…
none of this is funny once it has happened to you.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
to me, that song sounds like a paen to masturbating on pictures of or onto actual women (or women who look like girls perhaps - skin as gelatin), who having been abused, are now the ones in the porn magazines who can’t cry or who will “put the lotion in the basket” …. creepy beyond my imagination. its just not a good idea to release something like that without a disclaimer.
if thats not the case, i request a correction. but the whole thing reeks of something very distorted, not ok, sick even.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
also, negativland, you might want to reconsider the suppository up next to the pre teen girls face in your graphic that mocks big pharma, it might not sending the intended message in the best way possible to the intended audience (unless all you really care to attract to this page are other hustler readers)
considering all that exists out there in the world to reinforce the idea that putting things up childrens butts is funny/mockable, i would maybe take a different approach. maybe a little more thought out?
unless the message that you intended to send, i would refresh that graphic with someone older, or perhaps not a girl child, yeah?
March 18th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
http://www.guernicamag.com/features/1563/the_pleasure_of_flinching/
March 18th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
brilliant, christian. totally on point.
” In Regarding the Pain of Others, Susan Sontag argued that to be a spectator of calamity has become quintessential to modern experience, with photographs of atrocity haunting modern consciousness. Visual understanding, though, is also an ever-changing experience, and it may be that digital Internet footage has in many ways overtaken the photograph as the modern form of technological representation that most closely approaches the intolerable; there exists on every screen the possibility to see what no one should see. This is no longer the case with photography. Digital footage is not framed in somber gallery exhibitions, mounted on museum walls, or filtered through any editorial process. Such images now belong to the public domain, for better or worse. They have lost almost all sense of origin, and function as a kind of traumatic global currency. The same images are recycled countless times for wildly divergent aesthetic and ideological purposes. For Sontag, there is always a moral need to question our right to witness atrocity: “Perhaps the only people with the right to look at images of suffering of this extreme order are those who could do something to alleviate it… or those who could learn from it. The rest of us are voyeurs, whether or not we mean to be.”
March 18th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
Global Repetition Compulsion?
Fear is a greater motivator than pleasure.
March 18th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
“It is this comfortable unreality that drives Sontag’s insistence that spectators of atrocity think past their sympathy, grief, and shock, the sheer sense of amazement that such horror exists, to think critically—to reach what she calls “moral or psychological adulthood.”
a good book (an ART book) is “On Photograpy” by Sontag.
I am not sure the hey man its art lefty culture we so vociferously depend on and defend is going to pay us back with the pleasure of flinching much longer. I have a feeling the pleasure will be all *theirs* pretty soon. From advertising our solipsistic pleasure to submitting to full control of fascism by short circuiting our collective adulthood. All in the span of what, 60 short years?
March 18th, 2010 at 9:31 pm
As far as I’m concerned the pleasure already is all theirs.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM136_100303_rnc_finance_leadership.html
http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index.php/2010/03/17/turn-out-the-lights-the-party-s-over?blog=214
http://www.wikileaks.com/
(the last one will purportedly be shut down in short order - thats ok there is still plenty of porn)
March 18th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
Well, at least there is one good thing left in the world.
March 18th, 2010 at 10:46 pm
How paramount the future is to the present when one is surrounded by children. - Darwin
March 18th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
pg: for the next scrap -
http://www.cheezus.com/mean/
im a slop-jawed balltuft
you sir, are a rancid-skulled spermbandit
March 19th, 2010 at 5:17 am
paste-specked goatlicker
I quite like that one. I think the whole point of the suppository is the horrific idea that anyone would give drugs to their kids in ANY form. Obviously paracetamol for pain relief, but Mertz? Ritalin? It’s an attack on the pharmaceutical companies and their strong arm advertising, or at least that’s how I read it.
Would it really be any more or less offensive if it was a BOY in that picture? I would argue that the gender really doesn’t matter in this instance. If it did then surely it would still be as offensive with a boy. I really don’t get the argument of ‘this is offensive and sexist, but if it was a boy then hey that’s alright then…’
Glad you liked The Toilet, I thought it was some of the best music I’d heard for quite a while.
As for ‘Your Skin Is Gelatin’ I thought it was mainly just nonsensical cut n paste lyrics like the immortal ’squawking like a Pink Monkey Bird’ that Mr D Jones created back in the day. What makes me think I’m correct is the line ‘an empty bowl of cereal on a rock in a stream’. Or is that in some way sexist and suggestive of abuse? Perhaps I missed it.
March 19th, 2010 at 5:20 am
spastic-mouthed hymencake
hmmm not all of these are particularly funny, although this one made me giggle:
bubble-draped fartbitch
March 19th, 2010 at 9:53 am
think an older person, either gender, a teenager that did not look like a young girl would make the point better. i get the rape of innocence thing, yes, the medication of children -that girl looks like the one from the stealing showbiz video, yes, all most obvious. the concern in this is that because none of them are girls nor have girl children, i don’t trust the ethics behind this. just like one should not attempt a documentary film before the age of 40, or not attempt memoirs until one qualifes for AARP, I dont think one should use female subject/object qualifiers before being a girl or having one. just very dubious.
re: that song, when i teach art/audio/video/design, i dont allow students to create art that they then say was ‘unintentional’… not only because the art then is usually just shitty art, but also because you are wasting time. there are ways to do dada that are also intentional, and usually the unintentional anythign is just a fart in the wind. or worse.
meanwhile, again with the subject/object qualifier, if i did some embarrasonic penis song with some really bad penis art to go with it, i would be accused of supporting castration.
turn around is fair play, but i get the feeling this art collective exists in a testosterone vaccum where women are objects for the most part. and rides, pussy, etc.
oh, jeez, i sure wish to be proved wrong!
love
whiskey-balled goatsucker
March 19th, 2010 at 10:41 am
Speaking of ‘unintentional’:
You might as well ‘call them out’ for their hoax back in ‘88!
The idea of being accused of causing a young child to murdering his parents…. well, it does ‘cross a line’, but it DID expose the lie of ‘main-stream’ journalism… or did it?
If a tree ’shocks’ alone in the forrest, does it shock?
They do seem uncomfortable in their position…. just my opinion, of course.
March 19th, 2010 at 10:45 am
I would love to hear your very bad penis song with very bad penis accompanying artwork. I wouldn’t accuse you of supporting castration. Even if it said ‘Bobbit was in the right, chop of his wang tonight’ or something like that.
I’d just laugh. In fact, I may get my missus to record those very lines. I would do it myself, but I think the words may have more power coming from a woman’s lips. Or maybe not.
As for the ‘bad art’ thing, what is wrong with ‘bad’ art? Surely art is art is art, and good or bad are just subjective words and in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps the beholder will be a feminist who reads too much into a Negativland song or perhaps it may be a mysoganist who thinks Eminem really DOES want to rape everyone. Or maybe an average Joe who thinks ‘hmm I like this’.
PS - does your lack of meat and 2 veg mean that you can’t comment on anything remotely masculine? If you were to say the new Rambo flick was shit I wouldn’t tell you that you needed to be male to have an opinion
Much love right back at you
sissy-skulled cockstump
March 19th, 2010 at 10:51 am
re 591: My wife always had a bit of a problem with Helter Stupid. She thought it was in bad taste. I thought it was one of the best and easiest ways to expose how news was and increasingly IS now gathered. And the sensationalism. Plus it makes for some great listening too.
How about this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9031532194656768989#
Humourous genius or twisted???
March 19th, 2010 at 11:14 am
“We just don’t have enough data.”…. or is it Dada?
March 19th, 2010 at 11:21 am
Watching that again I have to say I am not surprised it was considered so shocking, but it’s actually pretty funny once you get over the extremely tabboo subject. And if you listen to what they’re saying then you realise that there is very little in there that is offensive.
My favourite episode of BrassEye:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwylBRucU7w
March 19th, 2010 at 11:24 am
purely to lighten the mood:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj2NOTanzWI
March 19th, 2010 at 11:26 am
from teaching art ad nauseum, it has been my civic duty to prevent the world from having to grapple with more jesus on the cross getting a blowjob from a playboy centerfold done in oils by someone who should be working in in data entry. its just a long standing paid/full benefits effort of mine to try to not only get people to own up to the tremendous bullshit behind their “messages” or just get freaking please off the pot. i am a great fan of bad art, but some art is a fart in the wind, should just blow right on by. im sure my daughter thought every crap she took when she figured out the potty was a wonderment that i should have photographed and framed, but is that really worth the time. in fact im late for a meeting, that peice of art is shit.
the testosterone sealed environment of negativland is sometimes hilarious, sometimes embarrassing beyond words. like i cant listen to it because it is so bad it makes me feel bad. like, not only do they not interact enough with women, the explanations they give don’t even make any sense.
sociopath or social critic? larry flynt is a “hero” ?!?!
if you can get away with anything, you are a charlatan. and yes, there are suckers born every minute.
fucking fuck fuck
love
rusty-lipped cornfuck
March 19th, 2010 at 11:29 am
Q-what do you get the pedophile who has everything?
A-another parish.
March 19th, 2010 at 11:34 am
I actually agree with you for the most part girl.
What did you make of the BrassEye special then?
596 is worth the less than 9 minutes it takes to watch it.
You WILL laugh.
March 19th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
will watch it soon and comment.
btw I DO NOT THINK NEGATIVLAND ARE PEDOPHILEs.
March 19th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
“The left’s intransigency on this matter is too much like those on the right who insist on long sessions of watching hard core porno so they can condemn it. The reasoning behind the exercise becomes questionable and the motive transparent in its unexamined pathology.”
“*sigh*. So, it is now a left vs right thing? Are you arguing that the right believes rape is ethical? RAPE. RAPE. NOT CONSENSUAL.”
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=239848617&blogId=490482337
March 19th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
re 600 I didn’t ever make any accusation that you did. Just thought that the link was extremely relevant to what has been discussed on here in the past few days.
March 19th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Brass Eye was fucking great!
March 19th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
yes, brass eye is really funny.
RE 601 - I never thought we should have been looking at those photos from Abu Ghrahib. It would have been one thing if we had done something to prosecute the war criminals and lawyers that are probably still masturbating to it, but the guernica post from yesterday reframes my whole argument against porn to include also tragedy porn.
cnn was showing a ton of footage of the aftermath of the haitian earthquake, at one point anderson cooper in his 2 sizes too small t shirt was standing at a garbage dump when a giant truck full of corpses was spilled behind him. all these descendents of slaves being dumped into an open grave. i kept feeling traumatized by the images, not only for the people who were not being allowed their privacy, but who’s to say your own son or daughter or mother or father’s body might have spilled out in front of your very eyes with this american ‘journalist’ standing there talking about it as if it were a news event requiring objectivity. IT was a FUCKING GIGANTIC HOLOCAUST, with a FUCKING NEWSCASTER!
to say that it seared into my brain was nothing. anyone who knows me knows i cry frequently over everything and anything, my past, our future, bad manners, etc. to be honest something very awful happened to me shortly after seeing that footage (which was put on the repeat cycle for that day). i immeadiately turned it off, walking away to distract myself.
a few days later i needed to masturbate and guess what showed up in my mindscreen (no porn, no toys, just me myself and i)? it was these fucking horrifying images, and because that was the first time i had ever even connected any visual tragedy wth an orgasm, i started me researching this stuff like a maniac. now im convinced that if evolved in tribes are wired to empathically relate to one another and to have a primary aversion to others suffering, if you allow this stuff into your brain, suddenly your brain is mapped and wired very very differently.
and that was the personal example of how i became convinced that when ted bundy said he slowly lost his ability to stay ‘human’ because he desensitized himself using harder and harder core porn sank in completely.
it hasn’t happened since (thanks virgin mary) but i do think that our industrialization is not only an earth rape (if you beleive in the gaia stuff) but a rape of our own survival instincts which have been wholly dependent on extended family and survival (for 100s of thousands of years at least).
so i now feel that if ‘man’ and yes some ‘woman’ but not to the same percentage, continue to use these images assuming it’s not doing anything negativ to change the interpersonal dynamic, we are so far off course that our impending mass suicide (ecocide) is a good thing for the planet, absolutely.
love,
convinced we are all fucked if we don’t all change
ps darwins real quote was - its not the smartest or strongest species that survive, its species the most adaptable to change
March 19th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
on a more aesthetic note - i studied this human group extensively a few years because i think their art is fucking brilliant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogon_people
watch geography of heaven here:
http://www.chrisrainier.com/#mi=1&pt=0&pi=9&p=-1&a=0&at=0
re: this documentary would be an example of those that will survive our excesses and idiocy of our tiny blip wart on the planet aka: western civilization. pending access to water and climate stability (which already sentences them to die distant from the giant earth rape but as another example of western hubris and non existent empathic ability … kbr may have already purchased the cave where ancestor bones lie, swiftly preparing it as an ass rape boys fort but not until or as soon as they can set up a greenzone with a decent burger king for their post coital shake. we need labor for the war up north, after all, don’t they know.
i would guess they don’t need pornography to learn how to have bad sex with eachother, tv to tell them how quickly we are mucking it up to take them with us to jesus, museums and galleries and schools to teach them how to make and sell their life which is also their art? i doubt they need the nat’l geographic people to blow smoke up their collective ass to make their lives meaningful as in this documentary (with the great photos)
long after our stupid poof is over, climate willing, this kind of thing will still be going on. the art here is also what inspired most of modern art, esp post industrial cubist, etc.
March 19th, 2010 at 5:04 pm
btw - terrible of me to suggest considering how addicted we all are to getting off, i know, but consider the thought that the circumcision rituals, and the timing of them during lifespan, and then also consider the emphasis on ritual harmony in the groups -
could that semi-neutering perhaps de-emphasize the solipsism that seems to have driven western civ to the brink, and that they have traded individual gratification in favor of the practice of collectivist unity?
love
pro castration
March 19th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
animation (song - meh)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hVlBPv2-PQ
March 19th, 2010 at 10:11 pm
um, yeah….. its just a form of “art”.
http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/19/jesse-james-sandra-bullock-michelle-mcgee-nazi-swastika-mistress-photos/
March 19th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
p*rn engenders loving honest relationships and open minded sexual health:
http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/18/tiger-woods-text-messages-graphic-choke-golden-shower-sextingjoslynjamescom-lyslyn-james-text-message/
March 20th, 2010 at 5:52 am
re 606: love the animation, I’d go much further than ‘meh’ for the song though. Glad you liked BrassEye.
March 20th, 2010 at 7:01 am
Getting back to The Negs: I’ve always found them to be quite ‘non-sexual’. Maybe it’s me, but even the classic track “The Playboy Channel” has an anti-porn quality to it. The weatherman might say ‘the horrible noise’, but we all know it’s ‘noise’ what we groove on, right?
The strange sounds inside “Two Virgins” did more to me when I was a kid, than the photo of John & Yoko naked ever did!
March 20th, 2010 at 10:46 am
Re 604: I’ve never thought of dead bodies or violence while masturbating. Eww…
Re 606: Very funny! (Proof that men aren’t the only ones who can have a deficit of empathy?) I suppose women are better than men because you’re abused more, so maybe men will be ennobled by traumatization. It’s one of the best arguments for child abuse I’ve ever read!
But seriously, folks, consider the development of circumcision rituals in the development of Western Civ. Also consider that the countries that circumcise most–Muslim nations, Israel, and the US–are the most violent. The PTSD circumcision causes males is likely one of the main causes so many of us are the way we are. Empathy can’t be taught through brutality.
http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/goldman1/
March 20th, 2010 at 11:50 am
christian -
606 was intentionally sarcastic and “shocking” - i don’t believe in circumcision or castration. i was just seeing what would happen if i wrote that. i took issue with that ritual long ago, even worked on a documentary about male circumcision (i was witness to my little brother’s when i was 4 and developed a freakishly protective mechanism for him that day) and the ptsd that ensues. i would think that rituals in dogon culture could not be put through a western lens, however, i don’t think we have an equivalent for it.
as fas as what happened when the dead body images showed up, its not that i was getting off to it, its just what popped up in my head when my body was releasing. which disturbed me to no end. i did not find it sexual, in fact i found it disturbing in a way that could not be explained.
my mother’s family are decsendents of slaves and native americans, so sometimes this stuff impacts me in a way that i cannot explain. there are genetic traumas that are carried sometimes, i think jewish folks and the german holocaust, armenians from the turkish, african americans from slavery, etc.
in the circumcision doc i replaced foreskins with uncooked calamari and cocktail sauce for some scenes. that part was ’special effects’
March 20th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
612 the tendermindfuck of my childhood was all the eastern mysticism i was exposed to. george harrison. meditation. people on lsd and peyote in the desert. being an extra in zabriskie point.
i dont understand the sexuality of negativland at all. i feel at once an aversion and an empathy, but also completely removed from any perspective that informs comprehension. i want to flush out thier cave with some estrogen air or something, metaphorically.
re 607 the more i listened to that song the more it grew on me. i think i listened to it 20 times yesterday, i used to teach that cutandpaste monty python animation effect and am super impressed with how far aftereffcts has grown as a tool
March 20th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
can someone help me understand male sexuality? from my perspective the whole act is humorous and tender. the male orgasm often appears akin to an epileptic seizure. i only want to protect the male when this happens.
what i am totally mystified by is how and why males, even after a tender epileptic seizure, would think that coming in one’s eye or choking you or biting you the point of bruising or bleeding is in order. when i encounter this, i have shut down to the point of hoping to survive it. it didn’t used to be the case (pre-internet) but now it seems like males think this is what women enjoy.
so then it seems only fair to reciprocate with crying or a return on the violence. im totally unable to comprehend any of it.
so im considering going asexual, but this new bf doesn’t try that stuff. he admits that it scares him too.
i literally feel like a rabbit in a maze when it comes to male sexuality, like predator-prey (im still prey, even in early middle age).
love
confused
March 20th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNjsfTyTefc
March 20th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cU19URUe6o
March 20th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
my neiborhood today
http://laughingsquid.com/doggie-diner-dog-heads/
March 20th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2010/04/0082902
March 20th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
jesus is a friend of mine
http://www.sexadvicewithanedge.com/podcast//20100317.mp3
March 20th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Here’s some freaky quasi-Python style animation, for you and yours:
http://www.thefrown.com/index.php?&/cartoons/84/647
March 21st, 2010 at 4:45 am
re 615: I would suggest that you are hanging around with the wrong type of men. I have never felt the urge to strangle anyone or ejaculate into an eye. In fact I don’t really get the point of cumshots at all, never found that part all that interesting. A turn off in fact truth be told. I always saw that as more a bi-product of the whole affair. Sure, I REALLY REALLY enjoy the FEELING of an orgasm, but cum? Meh. Pain in the arse to clean, sticky horrible mess. I don’t like being covered in it, so wouldn’t want to inflict it on anyone else.
I also find the male member strange, even though I’ve lived with one my whole life. I also feel cheated re the whole multiple orgasm thing. Cock and balls really look like they shouldn’t be there sometimes.
But hey, I AM a man, and sexuality is a bizarre thing. We all get our rocks off to different things, and fantasy is merely that. If I can watch Arnie machine-gunning the world without ever feeling the need to pick up a gun (far less shoot one), then I’m sure I can watch Billy BigDick pulling Busty Barbaras hair while doing her doggy-style without wishing to act it out in reality.
I never did get with this whole life imitating art thing. It’s just a cop out, you will copy things you wanted to do anyway. If they are depraved or abusive, then they have stemmed from a depraved and abusive MIND, not the art/film/music etc.
re 611: I can’t listen to that song without thinking of Mark Mothersbaugh’s toilet flushing.
March 21st, 2010 at 8:12 am
re 621: very VERY VERY disturbing. Great animation.
March 21st, 2010 at 8:44 am
Hey, -girl-,
What is your opinion on a subject that gets ‘bandied’ about on the Rigorous Intuition site: the concept of ‘trigger images/words/actions’. If too personal, I understand.
I just recently saw “Derailroaded”: The Wild Man Fisher Documentary, and while I like to think that ‘if you’re NOT paranoid, then there’s something wrong with you’, his sad story shows the perils of what happens when this idea is taken to its logical extremes.
March 21st, 2010 at 8:47 am
re:622: right there with you…. and, let me tell you: these conversations with =girl= are changing my visions on certain things, last last weeks “South Park”, for example!
March 21st, 2010 at 10:48 am
Re 615: Go find a copy of Mike Lew’s book “Victims No Longer” and read the “About Men” section.
Re 622: Most of the porn I’ve seen I’ve found boring, chilling, or disgusting. I don’t get why people like to look at genitals so much.
March 21st, 2010 at 11:12 am
Let’s see if this’ll let me post two links at a time this way:
Link #1: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/more-fertile-imagination-20100319-qm8t.html
Link #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTVerDGHLKg
March 21st, 2010 at 1:28 pm
re 625: Haven’t watched any current South Park, so have no idea what you mean. I always liked how SP went with tabboo subjects and (to my mind at least) always seemed to totally ‘get’ them.
March 21st, 2010 at 6:43 pm
621 that animation is pretty silly. candy is dandy but liquor is quicker. seems like they were fairly tanked when they cooked that up. reminds me of that graphic circulating years ago - every time you masturbate, god kills a kitten
622 to speak to what makes a man and what makes a woman. you maybe dont realize how comprehensive the female sexual imagination is…? i mean, i can totally get off to that crazy stuff too. my problem is part that i grew up with the folks that made the sausage and have relatives that are total casualties for lack of better way to put it. suicided. the problem with porn is not the sex (except that its not sex, its prostituted sex) its the mindfuck, in that these are real people in a setting that we cannot comprehend. if you had that girl in front of you would you really think to put cocks in her mouth, ass, c*nt, etc? because not only would it be weird (all those other dudes with their cocks up next to yours) it probably would be quite complicated, physically draining, and to some extent boring. and the girl would be in pan (yes, that would hurt) and then everyon has to spooge all over her. not only are they probably on meth and crazed with satanic energy, but its highly unlikely its as clean as it looks. we sanitized our violence - all of it! and what suffers is not just empathy but those that are used in those movies. they are real people. if you saw your mom, sister, wife, daughter getting fucked like that, um, yeah. do i really need to go into that?
women are just as visual as men, btw. that whole “male brain” thing is nonsense. i grew up with an original 50s stripper aunt, who used to do little strip teases for me and my brothers just for kicks (pasties, big fake tits, swirling boobs, etc). i found it not sexual, but humorous. women can appreciate not only beauty in men, but also beauty in women. the point around my story here is that i think sexuality is as powerful in both sexes. the pregnancy part really does change one from fuckbody to human condominium, and it is at that point we start to fathom not only our reality as carriers of future humans but the vagina ceases to be just a sexual object. trust me. if men pushed humans out their parts you would share this re-prioritizing. how do i know this? i was a maneater for a good portion of my life until i got knocked up. then i became a mother. i had sex very infrequently. i used porn. i started to feel ashamed at myself for watching porn (having made human life with sex, suddenly my human being could not be made into an object as i had been when i was small)… in other words, perhaps a little more respect for our ability to be sexual, and what sex is biologically for could reorient and reframe the pirate bay version of sex.
on and on i could go. i went square dancing last night and danced with maybe 25 people. what a great fucking time! men and women, all strangers, holding hands, twirling. i feel unpunk admitting this, but we have lost so much as we lose eachother. i havent felt that connected to anything in ages.
i digress. that last bit wasn’t very cynical. but i appreciate this feedback, and really am grateful you are offering up your opinions and this dialog has become so nuanced. thanks yall
vc - i will look into trigger words (im a classic case of walking dissociation) and getback to you.
xo
goat ball stew
March 21st, 2010 at 6:43 pm
621 that animation is pretty silly. candy is dandy but liquor is quicker. seems like they were fairly tanked when they cooked that up. reminds me of that graphic circulating years ago - every time you masturbate, god kills a kitten
622 to speak to what makes a man and what makes a woman. you maybe dont realize how comprehensive the female sexual imagination is…? i mean, i can totally get off to that crazy stuff too. my problem is part that i grew up with the folks that made the sausage and have relatives that are total casualties for lack of better way to put it. suicided. the problem with porn is not the sex (except that its not sex, its prostituted sex) its the mindfuck, in that these are real people in a setting that we cannot comprehend. if you had that girl in front of you would you really think to put cocks in her mouth, ass, c*nt, etc? because not only would it be weird (all those other dudes with their cocks up next to yours) it probably would be quite complicated, physically draining, and to some extent boring. and the girl would be in pan (yes, that would hurt) and then everyon has to spooge all over her. not only are they probably on meth and crazed with satanic energy, but its highly unlikely its as clean as it looks. we sanitized our violence - all of it! and what suffers is not just empathy but those that are used in those movies. they are real people. if you saw your mom, sister, wife, daughter getting fucked like that, um, yeah. do i really need to go into that?
women are just as visual as men, btw. that whole “male brain” thing is nonsense. i grew up with an original 50s stripper aunt, who used to do little strip teases for me and my brothers just for kicks (pasties, big fake tits, swirling boobs, etc). i found it not sexual, but humorous. women can appreciate not only beauty in men, but also beauty in women. the point around my story here is that i think sexuality is as powerful in both sexes. the pregnancy part really does change one from fuckbody to human condominium, and it is at that point we start to fathom not only our reality as carriers of future humans but the vagina ceases to be just a sexual object. trust me. if men pushed humans out their parts you would share this re-prioritizing. how do i know this? i was a maneater for a good portion of my life until i got knocked up. then i became a mother. i had sex very infrequently. i used porn. i started to feel ashamed at myself for watching porn (having made human life with sex, suddenly my human being could not be made into an object as i had been when i was small)… in other words, perhaps a little more respect for our ability to be sexual, and what sex is biologically for could reorient and reframe the pirate bay version of sex.
on and on i could go. i went square dancing last night and danced with maybe 25 people. what a great fucking time! men and women, all strangers, holding hands, twirling. i feel unpunk admitting this, but we have lost so much as we lose eachother. i havent felt that connected to anything in ages.
i digress. that last bit wasn’t very cynical. but i appreciate this feedback, and really am grateful you are offering up your opinions and this dialog has become so nuanced. thanks yall
vc - i will look into trigger words (im a classic case of walking dissociation) and getback to you.
xo
goat ball stew
March 22nd, 2010 at 12:06 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1yinqadxuQ
March 22nd, 2010 at 7:34 am
re 629: It’s great dancing with a large group of people isn’t it? I used to do this a lot at metal gigs, yes they did used to be quite a communal gathering affair back in the 90’s.
Punk music has it’s merits. But as a way of life it is rather flawed.
Notice how I attempt to divert the converstion?
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:50 am
re 611: I can’t listen to that song without thinking of Mark Mothersbaugh’s toilet flushing.
I thought it was Jello Biafra that provided the ‘toilet flush’?
March 22nd, 2010 at 11:22 am
http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=1676
March 22nd, 2010 at 12:44 pm
624
vc
this subject is way too complex to get into without a book written, but basically if you look at this:
http://www.lucifer.com/virus/memlex.html
and having taught advertising memetics and psychographics and the deconstruction of such, i am convinced that our exposure, the tit of media we now suck on since the invention of television and now all the other forms of media, have worked their wormholes into our brains for a reason. the reason being the obvious, mind control etc.
as far as my own conditioning, i was raised like a lot of young girls, to doubt my own intuition and be dubiously led down the path to serving men. that disney had a strong hand in that is no surprise. but for some reason i always had the overriding ability to see beyond the hoaxes. if something was too fake feeling or looking, i would not be convinced.
thus, from what happened to me, could have been ritualized on those that perpetrated, but the escape of the environment where most of that was going on (from los angeles to las vegas) meant that the organization of child molestation that i think was better constructed and permitted wasn’t an option in vegas. we were also too poor and too removed from power for it to have been something constructed.
what happened to me was one of the perps would be released from jail and would come to live at our house to rehab (for drug charges usually) and the perp would do what had been done to him in childhood and also likely from prison. my own limited exposure to this person (male) prevented me from having to create mpd to cope. I am certain of this.
the female perpetrator did dress me up provocatively (sexy adult clothing and makeup) and photograph me. I was not photographed nude, but was made to feel like i was being exploited. other things happened too. but that was when i was in los angeles where the whole thing felt much more organized and less messy/haphazard.
no surprise that los angeles is the home of organized meme and the porn industry.
my training in triggers came from my parents, who would beat me for speaking out about what was happening, or sadistically deprive me of basics by locking me in my room for lying for hours. they both had been abused (father by catholic church, mother by southern baptists and mormons) and were never as bad as their perps. we talk a lot about it now, and they compare our upbringing (my older brother who was beaten daily is now mentally disabled in contrast to my younger brother who was not beaten - he was physically frail and could have been killed by what they did to my older more robust brother) to theirs, and apparently they were very liberal by the standards that they were raised by. and i believe it.
both of them seemed to be in dissociative states when they were being violent. they would use many degrading terms and those became part of my lexicon of self-referential internal dialog (im a cunt, etc) …
i have been fortunate to have always had the outlet of art and music. without it i would absolutely be dead by now.
in art, i often have depicted myself as two headed. the angry self wants to kill the decent self. the angry self is not an “other” as in multiple, but it was split off as a result of being beaten for “lying” about being molested. i was also more sadistically beaten by my brother, and his treatment was the tyranny of a child, so for what its worth having learned about sexuality from him, his use of porn has informed my strong current of awarness that it engendered the death of his possible empathic self. lately i have convinced him to pull his hustler honeys down from the wall (he lives with my parents, unable to mentally sustain himself) and he has agreed that he has never been able to disconnect violence from sex. we did also observe a lot of my mom’s being beaten and called names, so he picked up any number of bad habits there. he ended up in jail for shooting his wife. she was only injured, refused to press charges, he was released.
my survival instincts are to reveal as much about myself as possible to any potential partner right away, assuming this gives one fair warning in advance of emotions i have related to surviving sexual abuse (crying, occasional rages that tend to correlate to abusive or narcissistic behaviors are the only extent that i act out)… what i am curious about now is that men perhaps know that sexual abuse survivors tend to have less boundaries, and that my revealign that about myself seems to turn otherwise normal seeming men into degraders - biters, chokers, spoogers, etc.
as far as trigger words go, i do think that we might all have some that commit to memory and force dissociation, from major or minor traumas. do i believe that the CIA trains us via media - yes, completely. people being unaware of the sick child molesting racist agenda of larry flynt being an obvious example, the more covert (lady gaga is a curious example of a possible meme designed to continue to give young girls the idea that they are headless fuckbodies for mens use, sure easily). did i have any that could potentially derail my progress -
sure - i am an easy victim to narcissists. both of my parents used that splitting mechanism to cope, so not only did i become one (that would be the only alter i have ever really known - the “false” self that sam vankin speaks of) i am also perpetually victim to them and thier false selves.
jim jones was just another man, after all. look what he got away with. through music, repetition (which is mostly what church is), fear and more fear.
endless subject!
March 22nd, 2010 at 1:28 pm
a weird recent meme:
this movie: http://www.christian-movie.com/images/The_Blind_Side_Movie_Poster.jpg
(notice white lady saving black guy)
was screen written by a friend who is a descendant of john adams:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0PE_kC-3EY
perhapstrying to undo a family trauma the legacy of becoming so privledged he does not really have to “work” for a living….
screenwriters family did have black servants and he was raised by them for the most part… old southern money
the actress wins oscar and finds out that while filming movie husband was fucking nazi porn skank
said screenwriter and wife are republicans and notoriously classist. i would even suggest from private conversations that they are also closeted racists
http://orvillelloyddouglas.wordpress.com/2009/11/21/sandra-bullocks-new-film-the-blind-side-promotes-racism-paternalism/
media mind control. yep.
March 22nd, 2010 at 1:48 pm
http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2009/11/540-michael-oher-story.html
March 22nd, 2010 at 1:48 pm
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/60448,news-comment,entertainment,sandra-bullock-meets-sarah-palin-in-the-rights-american-dream-film-the-blind-side,2
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:04 pm
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9167657690296627941&ei=8LEqS_pxnrKqArfI1dsF&q=century+of+self+full#docid=-4728804367742729519
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:36 pm
christian -
what made you say u are mentally ill, and what is preventing you from healing?
girl
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:45 pm
WHAAAAAAT……….????
Hate to pull out the “I’m old” card, but this Lady GaGa/ Sandra Bullock stuff is ‘news’ to me!
weird, wild stuff……..!
Once again, thanks for the ‘knowledge’, =girl=!
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:15 pm
vc consider also, perhaps, just perhaps, tiger woods was brought down by pornbot operatives? the cia uses sex to get under the skin of certain subjects, why not Tiger. All this Obama/Pelosi “success” vs the undercurrent of racism/sexism via the mainstream media owned by the military industrial complex and their perps?
http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2009/11/235-tiger-woods-fall-from-grace.html
in the book confessions of an economic hitman, he lays out what it took to get him to sell his soul. sex and drugs.
just a thought….
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:30 pm
Well, even worse is this ‘conservative’ movie, with the oscar winning actress, and her ‘biker’ husband!?!?!
“When the going gets weird……”, eh?
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:30 pm
http://mindcontrolblackassassins.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/tiger-woods-“dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde”-a-ciamk-ultra-victim/
I played in a band that wrote a great song about doc ellis….
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message939929/pg1
…???
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:44 pm
http://gawker.com/5498092/sandra-bullocks-husbands-neo+nazi-friends
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Michael Lewis’s (Blind Side writer) wife went to both Bush the second’s inaugurals.
March 22nd, 2010 at 4:30 pm
What a freak show…. I assume no relation to Richard Lewis. (spent the week watching “Curb Your Enthusiasm” with the wife).
As for GaGa, I though it was just a 21st century Marilyn Manson/Brittney hybrid: I want a blood drenched Diamanda Galas to ’settle her hash’!
March 22nd, 2010 at 4:30 pm
re 633: I think you’re right. Mr Mothersbaugh was the Jimi Hendrix samples.
March 22nd, 2010 at 4:50 pm
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/m/i/minimaldeep/Plio0.gif
if gaga is anything, she is product of ‘handlers’ (thats my best guess)
March 22nd, 2010 at 4:51 pm
Mr. Mothersbaugh was featured in that Wild Man Fisher doc I mentioned earlier….. I have a new-found respect for Barnes & Barnes, too!
March 22nd, 2010 at 5:11 pm
just saw the devo on their last pass through town. as good as they were 20 years ago - and very funny presentation last week at sxsw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKQ_lgEHuoY&feature=player_embedded
March 22nd, 2010 at 5:15 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX4_DBaYzZU&NR=1
March 22nd, 2010 at 5:57 pm
why my dad avoided the church and the mafia (but his family didn’t)
my dad played trombone with the ratpack. the week before MM died, there was a show where she was being flopped around by handlers like a ragdoll. she got so tanked (or was so drugged) that my dad remembers her being dragged out by two big thugs. a week later she was dead.
my older brother was born a couple of years later, and my dad was driving mom and bro back and forth between tahoe, vegas and los angeles. eventually landing a job with elvis, we settled in las vegas. i was born shortly before that. the international hotel was my dad’s employer was a mafioso. my dad had to capitulate a ton of his dignity to keep his job.
he swore off the catholic church and the mafia shortly after we moved to las vegas, his last concession to his family allowed my younger brother to be baptized in a church that still exists on the strip near circus circus. he did his best to keep us from them, and whenever he was called to testify we were sent to stay with aunts and uncles in los angeles (they would suggest a hit on us kids or his parents, not him).
if marilyn was our first ‘pinup’ and to such an extent she represented innocence or girly sexuality, i think it hit me young (overhearing his insider stories) that capitulating to that las vegas thing would bring about an early death.
this resistance to sexism sprouted young.
http://rigint.blogspot.com/2007/02/fatally-beautiful.html
http://www.americanmafia.com/Feature_Articles_109.html
March 22nd, 2010 at 6:16 pm
624
http://www.sheldrake.org/papers/Staring/JCSpaper1.pdf
I do think that monkey see monkey do.
Having most of my sexual life happen before the internet sex/porn boom, i don’t think most fellers even knew to think choking, biting, facial spooging or multiple penetration, etc, was sexual (not to the extent that it shows up now). i had assaults happen, and those were by sociopaths. and they were violent, and the acts committed by today’s standards of normal sex (or what appears normal to seemingly normal men who would ABSOLUTELY take offense to the idea of being called sociopathic).
i disagree that you have to be prone to that kind of thinking first. My take is that these are more often than not guys caught up in the cycle of “need to up the ante to get off” who find themselves aiming for one of those fantasies with someone like me (abused, rabbit scared) and thinking it will go off just fine.
in fact, i asked one of them (normally they have no explanation for why they find this so compelling, and when you ask them, they stop calling) he said he saw it online a bunch of times and thought it was hot.
you really would have to have a vagina to know how it looks from this side of the fence.
ok, subject getting tired, even im getting tired of it. please just don’t assume that you are immune or your buddy is or that guy in the band you like is either. they always turn out to be the “quiet neighbor” who kept to himself and seemed so nice.
March 22nd, 2010 at 7:37 pm
Many people leave lives of quiet desperation. Damn them? Well, let
Many people live lives of quiet desperation. Goddamn them? I tend to believe that shit happens, live and let live……etc. My apogies for all that has happened to everyone.
March 22nd, 2010 at 7:44 pm
Monkey see, monkey do is nonsense!!
March 22nd, 2010 at 8:12 pm
I am a male primate (close relative to a monkey) and have seen, first hand , the shit that males of my species can inflict on females. I do not now, nor have I ever felt compelled to do what I have seen. I don’t think that seeing or experiencing abuse as a child will make that child into a monster at adulthood. Abuse of women has been a raality, long before the existance of easy access pornography. Men are who they are.
March 22nd, 2010 at 8:38 pm
its the nuance of the getoff i refer to, with all due respect. it has changed significantly as the versions of what people learn from have changed. i have had so many men (friends, lovers, etc) say they learned ‘how to have sex’ from watching porn that its hard for me to take your word for it when i already have theirs.
btw, do you have a vagina hoosier?
most of the guys are not what you would technically call monsters either, they just got weird ideas somewhere.
do you think a boy child is born with the desire to choke, spooge on, or bite a woman hard for sexual purposes?
March 22nd, 2010 at 8:40 pm
how is it that so many non-vagina holders are experts on what happens or should or does or does not happen to vagina holders?
you would see the same thing unfold yesterday if you watched any of that US heathcare reform debate get voted on. all the men and their sniveling, weeping fetus love.
assuming “hoosier” nicknamerefers to a guy, and not a ‘hooters’ waitress… if not, have you ever had sex with more than one guy? cuz i gots my research right here.
March 22nd, 2010 at 8:42 pm
oh wait, you are a male primate. do you have sex with men? they are fucking weird and lack explanations for bad ideas, except, i saw it in porn.
i would stop now thinking for me, cuz i can do that for myself
March 22nd, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Bullshit!!!
March 22nd, 2010 at 8:58 pm
girl….your vagina is not as important as you think it is. There are mamy ways that women are abused and subjugated that do not involve any perversions of the sex act.
I would never want to think for you and am sorry if i gave that impression. I was simply expressing myself.
March 22nd, 2010 at 9:25 pm
Sorry, I forgot to inform you that I was not born with a vagina and therefore my opinions are invalid. Is that what you wanted to hear?
March 22nd, 2010 at 9:47 pm
again, you really should not speak for the experiences of women in such a global way until you ARE ONE. I don’t pretend to think my vagina is important, i am curious as to why it has become a FETISH object instead of part of the body. You came into this discussion late, and are picking up in the middle of a long, drawn out elaborate Q and A.
i don’t try to speak for men, i try to speak to my experiences WITH MEN, to try to continue to see if there is any humanity to be had. Your abuse isn’t helping with that cause.
you sir, should reconsider your take on bullshit before the bull bites you in the ass where you shit.
March 22nd, 2010 at 9:48 pm
was the bullshit part about me not being able to think for myself, cuz if you want to do this, we can throw down.
you don’t scare me, flyover state.
March 22nd, 2010 at 9:53 pm
except you are going to have to go back and read ALL that was posted, and not just jump in to attack without an informed opinion about what you are attacking about.
reading isn’t really that popular, I know. but if you don’t want to end up looking kinda eggy-on-the-facey, you should retrace your steps a little and go back about 100 posts. I think you are looking to have the argument i had with mean boys 1, 2 and 3. maybe you are in the club and you are writing from the fort.
in other words,
duh, what?
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:05 pm
The Bullshit comment was my evaluation of your arguement and was not intended to express any judgment of your intellectual capacity. You have some good points but when you insult, please remember that all of us who were born with a penis have fragile igos and…well…by gosh…some of us are devistated by your whit.
How much groveling must we do?
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:14 pm
no groveling, just be a human being.
you must realize while you have fragile egos, you are still pretty much in charge. its a fight I really don’t want to have to fight anymore, and frankly I am SHOCKED everytime someone wants to have the fight.
btw - i have had to develop this wit to survive in what has been a shark infested sea. i didn’t choose any of it, but I have to make my way without a lot of the resources afforded those in the higher caste.
whether you or I like it or not, there are a ton of circumstances that need to chage or our species is going to kill itself off.
reference health care - you would think the Nazi’s just invaded Texas for all the flapdoodle about the rights of the unborn.
im telling you, if you think its hard to be a man in this world, try being a woman, and then try being a poor woman. and then try being a poor woman who’s father was considered a n*gr.
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:18 pm
and then try being a woman who thought she had met the nicest man on earth who then proceeded to bite her to bruising more than once, and came in her eye.
not only is that a sad and humiliating experience, when i asked ‘why’ … that person made up a bunch of excuses about me being ‘mentally ill’ and took off.
humiliating, hurtful, sad and devastating. all the while convincing me he was going to help me heal from sexual abuse, talked me out of a marriage that gave me financial stability, and now, because i cried, won’t talk to me.
mostly because i challenged him about sexist nonsense and porn. fragile ego!?!?! how about supreme leader ego?
he knows who he is.
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:25 pm
and, while i am at it, he has just a little bit to do with this negativland stuff.
and he owes a few of us low-status females just a tiny bit of an apology for things said and done in dishonest and destabilizing ways. but due to the worship of many fragile egoed men, won’t ever have to offer anything to anyone except “im an artiste” … with a toss of the beret, and off to the next victim.
the world looks very different when one has a mans come in ones eye.
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:41 pm
I don’t think that i have ever complained to anyone about being burdened as a man. I understand that your experiences are unique compared to mine and maybe to the rest of the people here. There really isn’t any way that any of us can chnage that. I appreciate your point of view but I cannot accept all of it. I wish you well and thank you for sharing your views. I don’t wish to debate and will cease.
Good luck to you in making us aware. I’ll continue to read your contributions.
Thank you
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:02 am
i was advised by an elderly professorial type (teaches quantum physics and antrho-astronomy, that men prefer to see women as either sexual chattel or totally devoted mommies. the diversity of our being either polymaths or mensa IQs or complex human beings , he insists, has yet to become acceptable to males as a component of female existence, hes in his 80s and he pretty much thinks that the world of men seeing women is still a flat earth.
Michael Moore wrote a neat peice about this in the huffpo. I will pass along the link.
truly, with both a uterus and a brain, STILL very few people in postions of power give two shits what an actual woman thinks.
behold the Pelosi, she threw a pitch that sent the resistance scrambling. Too late, already out of the park.
menfolk, I know its hard, you get all hung up on the idea that women are supposed to like all this crap and maybe you find a few who do or get mad at your wives because they don’t. but truth be told you are just as human as us. and if the shoes were on your feet, you would be pissing and moaning way louder.
and i firmly believe that you are all so spoiled you cannot and for the most part, unless you still have a liv human heart beating in your chest and not some false human heart substitue, that you stand to gain more from learning about why women are sad and bedraggled than you do by constantly telling us to shut up because you dont agree.
the end!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/my-congressman-bart-stupa_b_506649.html?ref=fb&src=sp
March 23rd, 2010 at 5:17 am
As fer me, I’m going to take all my knowledge of science, and all my observational experience, and guess that females of this species have just as many human ego drawbacks and fallbacks as males do. They’re just different ones… But let’s not dwell on Negativ’s.
March 23rd, 2010 at 5:38 am
Negativland is a Fragile Igloo
March 23rd, 2010 at 7:17 am
So, for every Laurie Anderson, there’s an Anne Coulter…..?
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:42 am
i wouldnt go that far -im as big an anne coulter hater as the rest, but i have never bitten somone to bruising nor cum in their eye. in fact, i dont get ideas like that. if i did, and somone asked me why i did it, i would talk to them about it, help them understand me a little. not just run back to my man cave and feel empowered having taken advantage of another sucker/girl.
but thats just me.
heres to cum in all your eyes!
the the end!
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:14 am
ps the words polymath, mensa IQ were not in my lexicon until i encountered your supreme leader. his way of talking me out of my marriage to a commoner was to suggest that i was being abused. and in a sense, i was, but the abuse that ended up coming to pass when i entered a relationship with your supreme leader was on a whole other level of mindfuck - closer to the pump and dump kind. the working class husband i had was more simple, didn’t need much from me, and didn’t need porn. to enounter someone who’s getoff felt like i was a masturbation device was shocking and disturbing. not only do i feel bad for the commoner who i was convinced was beneath me, i have no way to explain to him how duped i feel by both his and your supreme leaders inabilty to see me in three dimensions.
it never fails to surprise me how much the group think thing will happen in a small band of males. wheter at a porn convention, negativland show/comment board, lynching, etc, the male pack is formidable, toxic, and definitely a harsh environment for a thinking person.
pps - if your supreme leader is capable of duping me, then i would take good look at yourselves.
ppps. no wonder he thinks hes so smart- this is the level of debate you all engage in!
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:48 am
Re 640: I had another flashback/dream last night. They started during the Abu Ghraib controversy. That’s all I’m saying because I’ve been threatened.
All this Men Versus Women bullshit reminds me of my parents, and I’ve had enough. I’m not going to visit this board any more.
Long live asexuality. May Homo sapiens become extinct.
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:10 am
agreed. i would like to thank all the members of this board for reminding me why i thought that negativland had so few female listeners in the first place.
when one woman tries to visit a boys club of a board, it ends up feeling like a mental/virtual ideological gang rape.
im with you c. long live asexuality.
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Re 615: Go find a copy of Mike Lew’s book “Victims No Longer” and read the “About Men” section.
will read, thanks for the tip.
to vc and pg - thanks for being human beings.
to c - i wish you well and that your suffering abates.
to NL - i hope you learn a bit more about ‘influence’ and ‘power’ and the male brain from this vomit-like contribution i have added as critique but also encouragement to try to expand your horizons a bit.
to the rest of you - stupid is as stupid does.
im off to try to help heal the world, not hurt it some more. and that includes boys and girl. both. and … the transgendered….
(i know i know, im very dumb thinking being kind matters any more, or caring about exploitation is the healthier choice)
love
cares about people more than getting off (<-idiot, whore, dumb cunt, keep em coming boys, you can’t do worse than I have already heard 50 million times over)
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:43 pm
back again - i dont want to forget to thank phalaris - you were always kind, not once did you try to mess with my head for not being in the guys club or insult me for not liking porn.
thank you thank you thank you.
namaste
March 24th, 2010 at 7:04 am
re 680: No need for thanks. The one thing I will always be is a human being.
Christian, I hope you do come back mate, there’s few enough of us on here as it is.
March 24th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
Well,on a non-related subject…..
I mention earlier that we’ve had a bit of a “Curb You Enthusiasm” marathon here, and, on the extra, on a little PROMO for Season 6, Larry Charles is wearing a “Copywrite Infringement Is Your Best Entertainment Value” T-shirt!!!
March 24th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
But will he agree when you’re caught downloading torrents of Seinfeld?
March 24th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
Howdoya’ think I got to see “Curb”……. Shhhhhh
March 24th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
Watch FZ rehearsing the incredible piece, “Food Gathering In Post-Industrial America, 1992″ and other “Yellow Shark” tunes in this GREAT FOOTAGE!!!! ….Just like he was still here……..
http://www.killuglyradio.com/2010/03/24/yellow-shark-rehearsal-september-16-1992/
March 25th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
NERDS
March 25th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
says you,
U says!
March 25th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Hey U.
Welcome to Nerdsville, population around 10.
You’ll fit right in, I can somehow tell.
March 25th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Better a Nerd than a Dudebro.
March 26th, 2010 at 10:48 am
OTE REQUEST
Please please please can the current crop of All Art Radio OTE shows be dated? I mean in the left link for previous shows. I am quickly developing RSI coming back here day after day week after week trying to find the most up to date show, only to find it is one I’ve already downloaded and heard.
Then 2 are posted at once, and not in chronological order. I’m not complaining, but, a little help here????
Been enjoying the current shows Mr Hazard, keep up the good work.
March 27th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
Dear Mr. Hazard,
Deep within the bowels of this past OTE, there were clips of someone giving a speech about the allure of ‘anti-intellectualism’. I loved it! How was that guy, and where can I hear the whole thing?
Your, etc.,
Vincent .
March 27th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
I meant, “WHO was that guy?”
March 27th, 2010 at 6:13 pm
Why have a lot of the negativland videos been removed from Youtube for copyright infringements?
March 28th, 2010 at 9:58 am
Check this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/7532666/Russia-loses-two-time-zones.html
“Do you know how many time zones there are in the Russian Federation? Nine.”
Doesn’t quite have the same ring to it, does it?
March 28th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
so -vee-it.
I mean, so be it.
March 29th, 2010 at 12:43 am
sandra bullock divorce 2009
March 29th, 2010 at 10:34 am
I may consider posting previous OTE episodes on megaupload or rapidshare or the like (if the filesize isn’t too big…)
I don’t think Negs will have a problem with this (I would mainly post the most recent FREE episodes, wouldn’t want to take away revenue stream), but if there is let me know.
If folk are interested in such a service let me know too. Just post a reply on here, or on WAH. Will post this on OTE d/l page and Write Anything Here also.
I also have problems sometimes with the downloads but always seem to get them eventually.
Hope this may help some people…
March 30th, 2010 at 6:09 am
Re 692:
I don’t remember that OTE dialog - I never do. But it doesn’t matter because the way I collect stuff off media is very (excuse the expression) haphazard, and most of the time I have no idea who I’m recording. And this never bothers me because I’m actually interested in the effect of broadcasting anonymous human thoughts and ideas, unattributed, so it is the ideas themselves that register for whatever value they may have in themselves, unmediated by the presumed “authority” of the speaker.
Same for music. No back announcing music tracks.
Re 698: As always, anybody can do anything they want with OTE. There are NO restrictions on reuse of any kind.
Re 698:
March 30th, 2010 at 11:02 am
Well that kinda answered my non question. Figured as much. The offer stands if anyone wishes it. I just notice that some folks seem to have more trouble/less patience when it comes to d’l from here.
March 30th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
Hi Phantom,
That would be brilliant if you could make OTE shows available elsewhere.
However I’m still not able to access the AAR shows from February 12th and 19th. I’m still getting the ‘file not found’ error.
Have you had any luck yourself yet?
March 30th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
http://fansofdavid.com/?p=35824
March 31st, 2010 at 4:52 am
re 701: I think the error occured AFTER I had successfully downloaded the shows you mention. I reckon it could be part of the shady CONSPIRACY to thwart Negativlands progress to popularity…
I will look into putting some shows up somewhere. A good source of older OTE shows is here:
http://matrix.csustan.edu/Negativ/
Up to April 2008. I would also recommend buying the gaps in the shows from Negativland themselves, whenever the CONSPIRACY is beaten and OTE becomes purchasable once more. They do a great line in discounted bulk buying which I can personally vouch for.
I will post on here in the next few days once I get round to posting some shows.
March 31st, 2010 at 3:21 pm
re: 703
Thanks again Phantom. The Serpent X website is great. And I didn’t know about bulk buying. I shall have to look into that.
March 31st, 2010 at 3:42 pm
Hermy,
Bulk buying, along with ANY purchase of OTE shows is off-limit for now. Server issues or something. But when the shows go back on sale just email snugganut@negativland.com and ask for the best price on whatever batch of shows you want. I think mine went to around half what I would have paid for the shows singularly. I stumbled upon Serpent X a while ago, it is great for OTE and loads of Puzzling Evidence too, though I’m still only partially getting into that show.
re 694: surely that’s not a serious question.
March 31st, 2010 at 4:33 pm
I LOVE Puzzling Evidence - Praise Bob!:)
April 2nd, 2010 at 5:15 am
One thing about the shows on other sites is that they aren’t as high quality as the archive output from the Negativland website. I’ve scanned through a bunch of shows on that site and another and found them interesting to get a glimpse, but these are shows recorded off the radio and sometimes have signal fadeout or other noise and compression issues. But if you want a high quality version of a past show that was recorded from the main mixing console, you can head on over to negativland.com.
April 2nd, 2010 at 8:48 am
Can’t argue with that phalaris!
April 2nd, 2010 at 11:23 am
re 707: Agreed, a fair amount of the Serpent X archives have audio issues, never had anything like that from an episode downloaded from here.
Anyway, as promised, the pilot of my re-posting of old OTE shows. This is the first show of Feb 10. Let me know how it works for you, and I may start a mirror site if it is successful.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZAMOEE84
Cheers.
April 3rd, 2010 at 6:45 am
re 709
Hey Phantom,
That link to OTE Feb 12th worked perfectly.
Thank you.
April 3rd, 2010 at 6:02 pm
Hermy,
You are most welcome. Since that went OK, think I’ll go ahead over the next week or so with an OTE mirror site. Was the speed for the download OK? I find megaupload is about the best free upload/download site.
Will post the link to the mirror site once I create it.
April 5th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
JARON LANIER
Musician, Computer Scientist; Pioneer of Virtural Reality; Author, You Are Not A Gadget: A Manifesto
THE FLAWS OF THE LATEST POP VERSION OF THE INTERNET HAVE MADE ME MORE OF A BIOLOGICAL REALIST, AND IN PARTICULAR HAVE MADE ME MORE SENSITIVE TO NEOTENY
The Internet as it evolved up to about the turn of the century was a great relief and comfort to me, and influenced my thinking positively in a multitude of ways. There were the long-anticipated quotidian delights of speedy information access and transfer, but also the far more important optimism born from seeing so many people decide to create Web pages and become expressive, proving that the late 20th century’s passive society on the couch in front of the TV was only a passing bad dream.
In the last decade, the Internet has taken on unpleasant qualities, and has become gripped by reality-denying ideology.
The current mainstream, dominant culture of the Internet is the descendant of what used to be the radical culture of the early Internet. The ideas are unfortunately motivated to a significant degree by a denial of the biological nature of personhood. The new true believers attempt to conceive of themselves as becoming ever more like abstract immortal information machines, instead of messy, mortal, embodied creatures. This is nothing but yet another approach to an ancient folly; the psychological denial of ageing and dying. To be a biological realist today is to hold a minority opinion during an age of profound, overbearing, technologically-enriched groupthink.
When I was in my twenties, my friends and I we were motivated by the eternal frustration of young people that they are not immediately all made rulers of the world. It used to seem supremely annoying to my musician friends, for instance, that the biggest stars, like Michael Jackson, would get millions of dollars in advance for an album, while an obscure, minor artist like me would only get $100K advance to make one (and this was in early 1990’s dollars.)
So what to do? Kill the whole damned system! Make music free to share, and demand that everyone build reputation on a genuine all-to-all network instead of a broadcast network, so that it would be fair. Then we’d all go out and perform to make money, and the best musician would win.
The lecture circuit was particularly good to me as a live performer. My lecture career was probably one of the first of its kind that was driven mostly by my online presence. (In the old days, my crappy Web site got enough traffic to merit coverage as an important Web site by the mainstream media like the New York Times.) It seemed as though money was available on tap.
Seemed like a sweet way to run a culture back then, but in the bigger picture, it’s been a disaster. Only a tiny, token number of musicians, if any, do as well within the new online utopia as even I used to do in the old world, and I wasn’t particularly successful. Every musician I have been able to communicate with about their true situation, including a lot of extremely famous ones, has suffered after the vandalism of my generation, and the reason isn’t abstract but because of biology.
What we denied was that we were human and mortal, that we might someday have wanted children, even though it seemed inconceivable at the time. In the human species, neoteny, the extremely slow fading of our juvenile characteristics, has made child rearing into an extreme, draining long-term commitment.
That is the reality. We were all pissed at our own parents for not coming through in some way or other, but evolution has extended the demands of human parenting to the point that it is impossible for parents to come through well enough, ever. Every child must be disappointed to some degree because of neoteny, but economic and social systems can be designed to minimize the frustration. Unfortunately the Internet, as it has come to be, maximizes it.
The way that neoteny relates to the degradation of the Internet is that as a parent, you really can’t go running around to play gigs live all the time. The only way for a creative person to live with what we can call dignity is to have some system of intellectual property to provide sustenance while you’re out of your mind with fatigue after a rough night with a sick kid.
Or, spouses might be called upon to give up their own aspirations for a career, but there was this other movement called Feminism happening at the same time that made that arrangement less common.
Or, there might be a greater degree of socialism to buffer biological challenges, but there was an intense libertarian tilt coincident with the rise of the Internet in the USA. All the options have been ruled out, and the result is a disjunction between true adulthood and the creative life.
The Internet, in its current fashionable role as an aggregator of people through social networking software, only values humans in real time and in a specific physical place, that is usually away from their children. The human expressions that used to occupy the golden pyramidion of Maslow’s pyramid, are treated as worthless in themselves.
But dignity is the opposite of real time. Dignity means, in part, that you don’t have to wonder if you’ll successfully sing for your supper for every meal. Dignity ought to be something one can earn. I have focused on parenting here, since it is what I am experiencing now, but the principle becomes even more important as people become ill, and then even more as people age. So, for these reasons and many others, the current fashionable design of the Internet, dominated by so-called social networking designs, has an anti-human quality. But very few people I know share my current perspective.
Dignity might also mean being able to resist the near-consensus of your peer group.
April 5th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
I don’
t wor
ry cu
z my
walle
ts fat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euLdKW_Db1k&feature=player_embedded#
April 5th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EpeF1fcji0
April 5th, 2010 at 9:55 pm
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&tbo=1&rls=en&tbs=rltm%3A1&q=mark+hosler+lecture+father+daughter+sex&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
April 6th, 2010 at 4:02 am
re 712: Does anyone else read that as an extended version of ‘Poor me I have got kids now and less time to fart around making and playing music’?
Some interesting stuff in there, but how it all relates to the internet is not all that clear.
April 6th, 2010 at 9:44 am
I agree, PG!
Geez, we need a THE LAST CHAPTER, PART TWO!!!!
April 6th, 2010 at 11:13 am
no, that LANIER guy is actually a giant producer of a ton of content still. he just is making a point about ’survival’ and how difficult it becomes in old age to make a career out of theft. meaning - he really could use some cash money for his efforts after a lifetime of reasonably considering his ‘art’ a public offering (free, steal me, etc.) things like declining health (and missing insurance coverage) and the need to be paid in order to eat are entering his conscious awareness….
totally valid contribution to the discussion, his book “you are not a gadget” esp.
April 6th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
http://www.jaronlanier.com/gadgetcurrency.html
April 6th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
Q: Aren’t appropriation and reuse central to culture? What’s wrong with doing those things on the Internet?
A: Appropriation and reuse are central to culture, of course. I have had a few questions at talks about Hip Hop culture, and I always say I wish Web 2.0 was more like Hip Hop. Imagine if you usually didn’t get to know who was rapping, or if you could only know a name, but not the person’s story? Would that be culture? Hip Hop is about people - some vastly more talented or ethical than others - but the actors are humans with character and history, not information fragments.
If you are being expressive and want to do some appropriating of your own, may I suggest some ways to do it that you will probably find rewarding, even though some effort is involved?
a) Internalize what you want to appropriate first, so that it comes out of you as both an appropriation and as your personal expression. A golden example would be Thelonious Monk learning stride piano and then turning out his Monkified stride entwinement- and I realize it might be intimidating to bring up a stellar example like that… but that’s the path to meaningful culture.
b) Don’t appropriate something just because there’s some hit of novelty in it, even though you have no idea what it meant to the people who made it originally. That’s what missionaries do to the cultures of native peoples. Connect, understand, or empathize with the people you appropriate from, to the degree you can. It’s often hard to understand or connect with other people, even in the best of circumstances, just because that’s the human condition. Any little bit of awareness across mysterious interpersonal chasms you achieve is a triumph, and the only source of meaning. (That doesn’t mean that all appropriation has to be based on sympathy. What I’m saying applies equally well to such things as satire and criticism.)
c) Be financially fair to your sources.
April 6th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
wasn’t our generation the one formed on all that ‘everything you know is wrong’….?
thusly, why is the challenge that Lanier presents any different than what underlies that basic premise that everything should be questioned, even our own doctrines?
have we become like conservatives, who cling to rhetoric and theory even when it proves to be invalid/unsuccessful/negating?
April 6th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Q: The ideas you criticize are more than just abstract ideas to me. They are touchstones of the way I think about goodness in the world and part of the shared experience I have with my best friends. How can you even think of trying to take them down?
A: This is not easy. In my own experience, I clung to ideas that mattered to me for years even after I didn’t really believe in them any more. In my case, it was some late neo-Marxism, some over-the-top feminism, some unbalanced anti-Americanism, and other colorful, consoling explanations for the strange, tricky phenomenon of being alive in my particular time and place. My sense is that when ideas are more than ideas - when they are touchstones of identity, solace, or happiness - then it can take a rational person 10 to 20 years to accept that they might not be entirely correct.
Fortunately, you rarely have to entirely reject beloved ideas, only parts of them. Once you dissect cherished ideas in your head to become more discerning, you lose a little, but gain much more.
A lot of people believe things today that they’ll have to learn to fine tune if either America the nation or humanity the species is to survive. The troublesome ideas these days often have to do with religious fundamentalism or extremist nationalism. The abandonment of cherished thoughts is a hard process that a great many people will have to somehow endure. It’s one of the most honorable and difficult things a person can accomplish.
April 6th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
ps. girl
April 7th, 2010 at 3:12 am
re 471. BANANA!!!! xiang jiao ! 香蕉
April 7th, 2010 at 3:14 am
¸¸.•*¨*•♫♪ ♪♫•*¨*•.¸¸¸¸.•*¨*•♫♪ ♪♫•*¨*•.¸¸
April 7th, 2010 at 3:38 am
Welcome back girl, it’s been a while.
April 7th, 2010 at 8:44 am
peace be with you, -girl-
April 7th, 2010 at 1:55 pm
peace to you too!
xoxo
April 7th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
I don’t really get how ‘internalising what you appropriate’ makes a damn bit of difference to the originator(s) of the source(s).
Surely it’s entirely up to the individual how much anyone wants to learn about what they sample or even about sounds that may influence their ‘original’ content (notwithstanding the argument that there is NO SUCH THING as original content).
I had to laugh at the example of knowing who is rapping on a hip hop record, like that is ever a problem. I can’t for the life of me think of any hip hop artist who isn’t telling anyone listening EXACTLY who they are in every SINGLE VERSE, sometimes several times. You don’t get that with rock bands. Consider how weird The Ace of Spades would sound if it went something like this:
If you like to gamble, I tell you I’m your man
I’m L E M M Y yes you know me, you win some lose some it’s all the same to the Motorhead crew
The only girl I need is the Ace Of Spades
The Ace Of Spades
Motorhead 1980 motherfuckers
The Ace Of Spades……
I say sample what you will, even if you have no clue of the source. My favourite quoted sample source is on No Business ‘a Death Metal band’. I think it may even be the same one that’s on Its All In Your Head FM. The snippet used is no less important for the fact that Negativland has no clue which death metal band they have sampled.
April 7th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
KFMDM
better than the best
megalomaniacal
and harder than the rest
That kinda would be an awesome version of Ace Of Spades, actually, presuming we aren’t just talking about Ice-T’s Body Count project.
I remember seeing C-Tec live and they did a really great cover of Ace Of Spades. Good times, good times…
April 7th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
KMFDM
Spell check does not speak Industrial.
April 7th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
i dunno, i see the light on a lot of his arguments because i am exposed to so much of this new fangled detached-entity style sampling stuff. i have taught audio as well (reason, protools) and watched the kids go about grabbing stuff out of the internet air and faltering about with no relevant context. you may not live in an area where the exposure level for this stuff is so high, so it may not seem as valid, but when you teach music, you have to give a bit of history, or its just crap crap crap.
listen, i dig negativland as much as the next dudebro, but sometimes they are so far off (hosler’s vagina song makes me purp perp) its embarrassing. that would be a really good example of a way to not pull out samples for novelty *(once one is raped, ones perspective on sex changes permanently, so mocking a charlatan sexual abuse “healer” and contextualizing it next to porn is akin to mocking someone having been beaten up for being ugly or nerdy)*
yall are super white and sooooooo male, that much is obvious
i want to see negativland pull out of the fratboy nosedive, and no the ’snag’ self-labeling does not make you an honorary female
Love,
YHWH
April 7th, 2010 at 5:45 pm
btw - sometimes i think negs are trying to block the IPs they track for me… or sometimes the site post option just don’t work. i love the idea of culture jammers being afraid of being jammed. BOO!
technology rules.
April 7th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
also, lanier was suggesting if you want to do the genre WELL, not that you ‘can’t or should’ not (no one is nannying this anymore, in case you haven’t noticed) you should consider the source and what you are sourcing. i play multiple instruments, and so far on the drums i have not learned enough about it to have my own style. but on guitar and bass i do, and on the software i do as well. the software especially makes you instantly suck, so unless you learn the rules first in order to break them, you don’t stand out at all.
thats a tenant of art, borrow and steal until you know how, and then go back and fuck it all up.
if you want to ’stand out’ and be ’successful’ that is…
or just pull food out of thin air or download it from the internet for free. or work at a 7-11….
April 7th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
btw, i am fully aware how hopeful and self-flattering I am when i think “they” are trying to block my posts…
makes me feel ‘dangerous’ and ‘illegal’ and stuff.
whaoh, that girl doesn’t want to be defined as a fuckbot, shes trouble!
xo
starfucking famewhore
April 7th, 2010 at 8:45 pm
For more on FAILURE, check out
April 8th, 2010 at 5:35 am
Why block the most prolific postee on this board?
Anything really does mean anything.
I forgot about KMFDM. They are also a drug against war. I love the idea of people listening to KMFDM rather than fighting.
April 8th, 2010 at 8:09 am
Never got ‘into’ them…. I remember liking “More & Faster”, and I remember hearing that album with the Zappa lryics on it!
Cute People Like Us radio show yesterday:
http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/35324
Oh, and -girl-, I wonder what you thought of The Residents “Tweedles” album? You wanna talk about, “Where do you ‘guys’ really stand?”, this one was a little creepy EVEN FOR ME!!
April 8th, 2010 at 10:34 am
Been downloading and listening to OTE for years and never new of the existence of WAH. Thanks for pointing that out phantomguitarist